To: Joe S Pack who wrote (40989 ) 11/6/2003 1:09:56 PM From: AC Flyer Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559 >>He does n't make nonsensical statements<< Yes, he does. I believe I demonstrated that unequivocally. The fact that his nonsensical statement happens to fit your subjective agenda is a different issue altogether. It is just about typical of the quality of debate on this thread that you are arguing that 2 plus 2 does not equal 4. Of course, this is consistent with the prevailing standard of Chinese internal political discourse until relatively recently. >>Are you sure our hedonistic GDP is as it is stated by our Govt and touted by Wallstreet?<< No, I am not. But I do know that this data is collected and correlated using a consistent methodology by civil servants who are not political appointees. >>Do you know what is true GDP of China?<< No, I do not. Nor does the Chinese government, by all accounts. >>How much is our debt? How much is debt of China?<< I don't think that you want to go there, as it is widely known that the Chinese banking system is burdened by non-performing debt in amounts that make Japan's problems look like a sideshow.CHINA'S BANKS: THE ONLY TWO THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW By Gordon G. Chang There are two things to know about the banking system in China. First, the major state banks, the so-called Big Four, are insolvent. Second, the effort to bail them out is not working. Everything else is simply detail. The most important is this: The crisis in the Chinese banking system is perhaps the most serious in the world today. The cause is not hard to understand. The Big Four, over the course of just a decade, have squandered the savings of a great people at the direction of Beijing. Senior technocrats tried to reform state-owned enterprises by replacing direct subsidies from the central treasury with loans from the four largest banks (Bank of China, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, China Construction Bank and Agricultural Bank of China). The theory was sound: Wean sick SOEs off grants and make them self-sufficient. In practice, the plan was a disaster: State enterprises knew they didn't have to pay back the banks. So they didn't. In an economic system divorced from economic reality, banks effectively became gift givers. They essentially vacuumed cash from small savers and disgorged it onto state enterprises at the direction of thousands of officials. The process was easy, quick and absurd. china.jamestown.org