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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (78779)	11/7/2003 3:48:29 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

you make the decision to engage in the behavior knowing that the risk exists, and you accept that risk and its consequences. I couldn't agree more. You're right. I'm into accepting responsibility. I accept that if I got pregnant despite my reasonable efforts, I would behave responsibly. If I choose to produce a child, I would conduct myself during pregnancy so as to best insure a healthy start for that child and would either provide a good home for it or see to it that it has a good home with someone else. If I chose to abort, I would do so early. If I went forward with the pregnancy and some tragedy occurred, I would see to it that the resulting product had the best chance possible and was treated humanely whatever happened. And, when all that was over, I would reevaluate the behavior that got me into that situation and determine if any improvements could be made. See how responsible I am? :) To use your example, accepting the risk of one's actions doesn't mean that, if you're injured in an auto accident, that you have to go around with a broken leg all your life as punishment for having taken the risk. You get the leg mended as best it can be and you reevaluate your driving practices to see if you could improve them.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (78779)	11/8/2003 10:18:43 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I doubt anyone here disagrees with the desire for mature accountability. But the statement "You're not supposed to have sex unless you are prepared to accept the risk that you may conceive and have to raise a child," strikes me as one of those perfect world ideals that has no possibility of becoming reality and so avoids the real problems. We've talked here before about the lagtime between the development of the body and that of the teenage brain. We expect our young people to get advanced degrees and be in their mid to late 20s now before marrying while their bodies started screaming at them years earlier "WHAT?? NO WAY! I WANT IT NOW!" Delayed gratification is very difficult for many full adults, much less half-developed ones. To expect these immature brains to reliably, consistently avoid risk flies in the face of nature. In the past, girls were married in their early teens, boys left school and went to work in factories or alongside dad in the fields at 15. So we need to acknowledge that out changing social system has placed increasing pressure on young people. I believe the old religious standard of chaste until marriage no longer functions well. This doesn't mean I think it was a bad thing, I just think it's time to deal with it. Most young people will not wait until they are 25 or 30. Forcing people to raise children they are not economically nor emotionally equipped for, seems to me to be a punitive and costly move and I'm not sure I see the benefit. The irresponsible won't change behavior-- look at the disastrous welfare system. Education, support, easier, more realistic adoption processes, attractive alternatives should be the way we try to slow and in our perfect world eventually eliminate abortion. But for me the bottom line of taking responsibility is allowing each person to make that decision for herself. When you make it for them, you take away that ability and you do so based on your moral judgment of abortion, which unlike the other social moral behaviors we regulate such as murder, theft, is on a wide sliding scale of beliefs about what is right and wrong (as you noted about that report). As a mature, educated, moral person, I want the right to make this considered decisions for myself, and am not at all inclined to concede control of my body and life to you or Jewel or George Bush in this area. I realize that others may make decisions I find morally repugnant, but I believe they have this right, just as I do. It is impossible to ever argue and reach agreement on the issue of ensoulment or religious beliefs but this has no place in a governmental decision imo.