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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: TimF who wrote (177776)11/7/2003 6:08:55 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1572560
 
Yes, they were expelled.

This is obviously not an unbiased site but it also isn't a total fabrication -

jafi.org.il

There where cases where Arabs where expelled, and there where other cases where after losing battles with the Israelis the local Palestinians fled in fear, but as far as I can tell there was no mass expulsion. The Arabs that did remain where given citizenship and their rights where respected more then the rights of Arabs in any other nation in the area.


Of course the Israelis would say what they say in that link. Why admit you expelled anyone......if you did, you might have to pay for the property of the Palestinians you confiscated. BTW some Palestinians left because they thought the Arabs would make short shrift of Israel. Others left because they feared they would be slaughtered along with the Zionists. Either way, Israel would not let them back into the country after the war. They confiscated their property for Israel's monetary gain.

This fit right into the game plan of the Zionists prior to WW II. They saw the Palestinians as a problem because they [the Zionists] were vastly outnumbered. They came up with a number of ways to rid themselves of the Palestinians. Eventually, they were overruled by other Zionists and the Brits.

In any case, the 1948 war played right into their hands and even after the war was over, they continued to expelled the Arabs wherever possible as evidence by the link below. They got away with this garbage because of the Holocaust and the impact it had on European and American guilt.

<font color=blue>"Is there a name for an action that reduced the number of Palestinians within the historic bounderies of Palestine from 70 percent to under 50 percent? In 1948 more than 60 percent of the total Palestinian population was expelled. More than 530 Palestinian villages were depopulated and completely destroyed. Palestinian property spread over hundreds of Palestinian towns and villages, including homes, household effects, cash, heavy equipment, trucks and whole flocks of cattle, were plundered and looted. Israel confiscated and over four million acres of land, tens of thousands of homes, apartments, shops, factories and other facilities. Palestinians await compensation for these immense losses.

More than 37,000 Palestinians became internal refugees in 1948. Even after the cease fire in 1949, Israel continued to expel thousands of Palestinians, notably from the area north east of Tel Aviv known as the "little triangle," and in the south from Majdal to Faluja and Bir Saba, the Hebron region, and from the east and north of the Sea of Galilee. It even expelled those Palestinians it decided were "illegals." For example, in the Negev desert, between 1949 and 1953, Israel expelled close to 17,000 Bedouins.

To date, Israel has prevented the return of approximately six million Palestinian refugees, who have either been expelled or displaced. To date, approximately 250,000 internally displaced Palestinian second-class citizens of Israel are prevented from returning to their homes and villages. Israel has uprooted three-fourths of the Palestinian people from their land, making this the largest and one of the longest standing unresolved refugee cases in the world today. The majority of Palestinian refugees, those who live in the West Bank and Gaza and those who live within the bounderies of what became Israel, live within 100 miles of their places of origin but are denied their right to return to their homes and lands."<font color=black>

palestinemonitor.org

Why do you not answer the question but instead attempt to divert to another issue?

I am answering the question. Israel is attacked by Arabs, and if it ever became weaker (relative to the Arab states) it would be at risk of attack by the Arab states. Israel only has to lose one war for it to meet its end.


How can it ever lose another war armed to the teeth thanks to our largesse? And why are we still interceding on its behalf? After all, its a mature state that should be able to stand on its own two feet. Our continued intervention and support of Israel is slowing the process which would permit peace to develop in the region.

Most of the cards are in his hands and he refuses to deal. You do the math.

That doesn't make him the biggest threat to peace. It does mean that he isn't making a serious effort to establish peace.


There is no question. So long as he has Bush in his pocket, he will do squat.

None of the above justify spending $3 billion per year

We spend not to much less then that on Egypt.


Egypt is a country in dire poverty with a population of 70 million. Israel is a first world country with a population of 6 million. And yet, we spend more on Israel than Egypt.

Again, you do the math.

Just counting the reconstruction we will spend more in Iraq.

This is a joke that should not figure into this discussion.

We spend more billions in other countries. If you are against foreign aid or you think such aid should be slashed then you have a point (for those who agree that aid should be slashed). But $3bil is less then Americans spend per year on potato chips and less then half of what we spend on chocolate.

And yet you would oppose spending billions to feed America's poor. Again, I can only assume you argue the above from partisanship and not from ideology.

ted



To: TimF who wrote (177776)11/7/2003 7:25:35 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1572560
 
In Mideast, Reaction to Bush Speech Is Dismissive
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR

Published: November 7, 2003

CAIRO, Nov. 7 — Commentators across the Middle East today largely dismissed President Bush's speech calling for wider democracy in the region, labeling it something for domestic consumption to justify the war in Iraq rather than signaling a real change in United States policy.



Political analysts, while welcoming the idea of ending decades of support for dictatorships, dwelt on the usual gap between reality and what the Bush administration says about the Middle East.

The most common conclusion was that until the United States does something concrete to force Israel to free millions of Palestinians kept under military occupation, all American statements about greater democracy and freedom will ring hollow.

The vision that Mr. Bush painted was an appealing one, wrote Sahar Baasiri, a columnist in the Lebanese daily Al-Nahar, "But before it is translated into tangible policies that deal with real problems, it will remain boring, empty rhetoric."


The problems Mr. Bush talked about — recognizing that the United States was wrong in backing repressive regimes because in the end that produces instability — are not new to the people of the region, she said.

"We are familiar with these diseases and we recognize his role and the role of successive U.S. administrations in spreading and sustaining them," she wrote. "What is needed, is a realization that the fundamental problem remains that of Palestine, and the scandalous U.S. bias in favor of Israel and against the Arabs, their interests, and their aspirations."

<font color=red>Mr. Bush's speech was broadcast late in the day on Thursday, just as much of the region was sitting down to break the daily fast during Ramadan. It also came on the eve of the Muslim sabbath, when few newspapers publish, so official comments were sparse. <font color=black>

Iran, however, condemned Mr. Bush's remarks as interference in its internal affairs.

"No individual, or group, has ever commissioned Mr. Bush to safeguard their rights, nor is he responsible for supporting anyone here," Hamidreza Asefi, a spokesman for the foreign ministry, said in a statement carried by the Islamic Republic News Agency. "And basically, keeping in mind the dark record of the United States in suppressing the democratic movements around the globe, he is not in a position to talk about such issues."

The irony was not lost on some commentators that Mr. Bush mentioned steps toward reform in friends like Saudi Arabia, viewed basically as a repressive monarchy, while demanding freedom in Iran, which has an elected if ineffective parliament and raucous internal political debates.


The Saudi press, however, took what faint praise there was in the speech and ran with it, basically ignoring the underlying message of pressure for greater change in the kingdom and neighboring states.

"Bush Commends Kingdom for Democratic Reforms" read the headline in the English language Arab News and echoed in the Arabic headline in its larger sister paper, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, published throughout the Arab world.

Some commentators did view the speech as marking a significant change: that Mr. Bush was signaling that the United States would no longer conduct business as usual.

"It would be a radical change in American foreign policy to extend a hand beyond the existing regimes, the traditional friends," said Omar Baghour, a Saudi economist who writes a newspaper column for Al-Madina, speaking by telephone from Jidda.


There was no mention of the speech in the official press in Syria, where most newspapers do not publish on Friday, nor in Egypt, where those that did publish treated it largely as a straight news story.

One Syrian commentator, Imad Fawzi Shueibi, a professor at Damascus University who is a political analyst, said that of course Syrians aspire to greater liberty at home but that they do not want to hear about it from the United States given its history of backing Israel and the mess it is making in Iraq.

"We can agree with the slogan that democracy is the best system and that freedom is a basic right for human beings, but we can't accept it from someone who is violating this freedom and this democracy," he said.

The sentiment was similar among Egyptian intellectuals.

"We see a case of mismanagement of occupation in Iraq and a regression in freedom in America itself embodied in the Patriot Act," said Abdelmonem Said, the director of the Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies, referring to more stringent domestic measures in the U.S. following the Sept. 11 attacks. "I believe Bush would help democracy a great deal if he worked more seriously toward solving the Palestinian issue and restoring stability in the region."


nytimes.com