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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Road Walker who wrote (177785)	11/8/2003 1:09:57 PM
From: Jim McMannis	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1575771

Investigators Say Iraqi Mass Graves Hold 300,000 1 hour, 13 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Andrew Hammond BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi and U.S. rights investigators said on Saturday they suspected Iraq (news - web sites) had up to 260 mass graves containing the bodies of at least 300,000 people murdered by the former regime of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). They told a conference that the task of identifying bodies and preparing evidence for tribunals could take years and millions of dollars, but the long process would be worth it to heal the wounds of three decades of brutal Baath Party rule. "We have reports of 260 mass graves and we have confirmed approximately 40 of them," said Sandra Hodgkinson, director of the Coalition Provisional Authority's (CPA) mass grave action plan'. "We believe, based on what Iraqis have reported to us, that there are 300,000 dead and that's the lower end of the estimates. "In Bosnia it's now eight or nine years since similar atrocities and only 8,000 bodies out of 30,000 have been uncovered. Here in Iraq it's 300,000," said Hodgkinson, a human rights lawyer brought in by the CPA after U.S.-led forces toppled Saddam in April. More sites could still be found. The three-day conference aims to prepare Iraqi rights workers and officials of the Iraqi human rights ministry for the process of disinterring graves and convincing families that they should wait rather than rush to dig up bodies themselves. Hodgkinson said only 11 of the 260 sites had been disturbed since the graves were first discovered in May, when distraught families frantically dug around for the remains of loved ones. Iraqi officials, who will gradually take over control of the investigations, also called for patience. "Iraq doesn't have the capability at present to do the work of investigation. The main task for the moment is how to protect the sites which have been opened," Human Rights Minister Abdel-Basset Turki told the meeting. KURDS VICTIMISED The U.S. military has footed the bill for satellite imaging to identify sites, but Turki said more money would be needed. Iraq's Governing Council asked an international donor conference in Madrid last month for $100 million to be spent on equipment and manpower over the next five years, but Turki said little has been forthcoming yet. A team of forensic experts will arrive in Iraq in January to begin work on up to 20 sites around the country where evidence will be collected for future trials of regime figures. Work to identify bodies has begun at the other 200-odd sites. Investigators have identified six major crime periods: 1983 attacks on Kurds, a 1988 campaign against Kurds, chemical weapons attacks on Kurds 1986-88, the 1991 crushing of a southern Shi'ite revolt, 1991 crushing of Kurdish insurrection, and crimes against all sectors of the population during the entire period of Baath rule. Rafid al-Husseiny, a doctor who has led disinterring work at the Mahaweel site near Hilla south of Baghdad, is leading efforts to train Iraqis in the gravedigging process. "Since May we have investigated a mass grave there of 3,115 people. We identified 2,115 bodies, which were reburied by their families," he said, stressing reconciliation among Iraqis. "Iraqi citizens must look with both eyes, one looking to the future and one looking toward the past."

To: Road Walker who wrote (177785)	11/8/2003 1:18:44 PM
From: tejek	Respond to of 1575771

What's the payback for the continuing loss of these kids lives? Is it oil, is it an Iraqi democracy (how long will that last if we are gone?), is it phantom WMD's, is it Bush family revenge? These are real people with friends, parents, brothers and sisters, wives and kids of their own; each one leaves behind sorrow and wasted potential. To the politicians, they are expendable pawns that are weighed against some "greater good". The first "greater good" turned out to be based on a false premise; the new "greater good" is a crap shoot at best, assuming that what's being articulated is the true motivation. Sadly, I think it boils down to a theory held by the neocons that surround Bush; a theory not unlike the domino theory held by military people back in the '50s. The neocons saw terrorism as a growing problem and they thought the best way to combat it effectively was 'to seed' democracy in the ME. Since they didn't like Saddam, they chose Iraq to be the first seeding. They tied it to 9/11 in order to make it look like it made sense but it was all BS. Like most ideologues, they couldn't see the forest for the trees and overstepped......a mistake that we as a nation will pay for for a long time. I think the oil benefits were ancillary.....they certainly like them......after all, they're mostly oil people but I believe the prime motivation is ideological. To understand them, look no further than DR. I hope they are more sophisticated than he but they essentially think like he does. He sees nothing wrong with what's going on in Iraq because like most ideologues the end justifies the means. Its the same with OBL. The multiple deaths mean little to them......they are just another means. Bush's actions which most of the world sees as foolhardy, they see as courageous and full of integrity. That's how they continue to delude themselves and ignore what others are saying. It is a very dangerous situation and we need to be very afraid. Poor Jessica Lynch got caught in their crosshairs and she is outraged by their lies.....as should all Americans be. However, that's not happening........the outrage is there but its weak and scattered. I don't understand why Americans have been fooled this easily. There is no there there and one lie is stacked on another. If you have a clue, I would like to hear it. Nonetheless, the neocons' theory is a reactionary one dating back to the Reagan years, and is based on only a partial understanding of the facts........for that reason among many, it is destined to fail. IMO the cost to us will be determined by how long it takes the American public to wake up! ted