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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (78872)	11/10/2003 10:42:58 AM
From: average joe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

"I think we are in agreement that there is a justification for that. So, you identify “the highest good” that you can imagine. Most people would agree that the benefit of humanity is a good cause to value and stand up for in principle and conduct." The highest good you can imagine should not be planted there by Society, Solon or God or anybody except your own free-will guided by your intellect and your conscience. Free Will There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance, A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance. A planet of playthings, We dance on the strings Of powers we cannot perceive "The stars aren't aligned - Or the gods are malign" Blame is better to give than receive. You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill; I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose Free Will. There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, The cards were stacked against them - they weren't born in Lotus-Land. All preordained- A prisoner in chains- A victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, You can't pray for a place In Heaven's unearthly estate. You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill; I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose Free Will. Each of us- A cell of awareness- Imperfect and incomplete. Genetic blends With uncertain ends On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.

To: one_less who wrote (78872)	11/10/2003 11:13:23 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Generally, people who have a sincere belief in the reality of God, also believe in some associated dogma which attended their belief and which directs their behaviour and obedience. Now this is neither necessary nor invariable but is common enough to support an assumption. In such cases obedience trumps other considerations which is the reason I considered that same obedience to represent the core value for "higher good"-as being perhaps the HIGHEST good that a believer could hope to do--thus setting aside his own egoistical will and allowing his steps to be guided by the infallible wisdom of God. Your response seems to indicate your belief that a believer may assess his values independently and may have a sufficient inner spirituality to trust his values as being God-willed or directed...regardlesss of doctrine or dogma. I say this because you stated: "We have already agreed (I think) that serving doctrine that cannot be applied to such a circumstance with valor and virtue is inapplicable and that following an oligarchy that did not uphold humanitarian consideration would be misdirected (Not serving God)." It follows that you are making an independent assessment of what is or is not virtuous, else you would have no basis on which to accept or reject an interpretation or outright dictation of God's Will. In that regard you would be steering by an inner and social moral compass with the good of humanity as your fundamental axiom. In that respect there would be little to distinguish you from a humanist... Sustaining a God of goodness in accordance with your personal goodness and personal values is much different than having your values created by an unquestioning allegiance to doctrine. You seem to be of the former persuasion which I think is the way to go--but of course I may have misunderstood...