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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (79050)	11/12/2003 3:41:00 PM
From: average joe	Respond to of 82486

You're absolutely right IF you believe that there is only one person, the mother, whose needs and rights are to be considered. You're forgetting number #4 in the equation, the needs of the State. In China Lab Coat Clerics make the decisions. China Bars In-Vitro Fertilization BEIJING - China's Health Ministry has barred the nation's doctors from helping single women get pregnant via in-vitro fertilization, but the decision is subject to final review by the country's Cabinet and possibly the entire legislature. Under new revisions to ministry regulations, doctors are forbidden to help single women get pregnant through assisted reproductive technology such as embryo transfer and artificial insemination, the state-controlled newspaper China Daily reported Wednesday. The new rules, which took effect last month, are designed to "prevent inappropriate use of the technology by single women and unqualified couples, such as those with acute infectious diseases," China Daily reported. It quoted Qi Li, a Health Ministry official. Infertile couples must present identity cards, marriage certificates and birth permits to show they are eligible, China Daily said. However, a provincial regulation in the northeastern province of Jilin last year gave single women the right to get pregnant via assisted reproductive technology. Local legislators approved that law, which now contradicts the Health Ministry's new regulation. The State Council, China's Cabinet, will determine which of the two rules will prevail. The Cabinet's decision is subject to final approval by the country's nominal legislature, the National People's Congress. story.news.yahoo.com guardian.co.uk

To: The Philosopher who wrote (79050)	11/12/2003 4:10:13 PM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Well, of course that is the crux- and it's the bottom line issue we can't solve, wonderful as we both are. You use the term child, which I think you do for the emotional impact as well as to reflect your personal belief. I wouldn't use this referring to the first trimester. I do not believe a blastocyte or an embryo has needs and rights that take precedence over the host body. It is not a child at this point and saying it "deserves to die" for me is a meaningless sort of description. I see no excuse for allowing an unwanted pregnancy to progress beyond the first trimester except under very special circumstances. I value human life. But I also am not religious and don't believe in a soul as a separate entity that somehow floats into us somwhere along the gestation process. (Let's see- you got it around 40 days, while I, inferior female, had to wait til 80, wasn't it? But wait, the Jews said we weren't human til we were born, and someone else thought--- ) I found Mother Teresa's telling her dying patients that suffering was good and to offer their pain to God when she might have found painkillers for them an abomination. To me, forcing women to pay with the rest of their lives for a mistake is just as strangely punitive, if the mistake can be righted the day or week after. I believe that we slowly improve the lives of those already here and try to prevent the necessity for abortions, but I believe that women will obtain them whatever the laws, and I would prefer the procedure be regulated. There are always irresponsible men AND women. How far do we go to try to force them to behave by our standards? You go farther than I. As for the poor choice of the mother in a sperm donor-- yeah-- what happened to that responsible, eager man? What? You mean he lied about being there for her? He DIDN"T love her? Gosh- tough luck, huh? She gets the betrayal and the kid.