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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sun Tzu who wrote (119397)11/13/2003 3:02:51 PM
From: Noel de Leon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
"For example there is nothing explicit in Islam that advocates women should be covered up."
Hope you are not going to use the Imminent Argument.

Corinthians 11:5-15

5
And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved.
6
If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
7
A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

Corinthians 11:5-15

5
And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved.
6
If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
7
A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.


The Injunction of Wearing the Hijab in Islam: An Answer to the Critics

Rafidah Abdul Jamal & Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over the years, the dress code among Muslim women has been given great attention, especially in relation to the hijab (head covering) practice in which is considered as a symbol of "oppression" towards Muslim women. While Islam is certainly not the only religion to introduce the practice of covering head, it continues to be the centre of attack and heavily discussed as the women's right issue especially outside Muslim world. Furthermore, this has been included as a political agenda in some countries, which results in Muslim women being oppressed and their freedom to practice their religion was taken away. Sadly, we also see that some so-called "Muslim" secularists and hypocrites, under the false insinuation that wearing the hijab is oppression for women, make the ridiculous claim that the Qur'ân "does not make a statement about covering the hair". Obviously, this claim stems from their arrogance combined with their sheer ignorance on the matter. The purpose of this paper is to answer these Critics' claims to show them that their lies do not hold water.

In the Qur'ân, we read the following injunction about the hijab:

"Oh Prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient that they should be known (as such) and not molested and Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

[Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Qur'ân, Sura' al-Ahzaab, verse 59; The Arabic transliteration is: "yaa ayyuhan-nabiyyu qul-lil azwaajika wa banaatika wa nisaaa'i-l mu'mineena yudneena `alayhinna min jalaabeebihinna thaalika adnaa ay-yu`rafna fa laa yu'thayna wa kaana-llaahu ghafoorar-raHeema"]

In the above verse, women are required to cast their outer garments for them to be recognised as a decent woman, and further to avoid any harassment in any way. The word used in the verse, jalabib (plural of jilbab), refers to an outer garment which covers the body completely, and so this is also an argument in favor of covering the hair. While the above verse does not specifically mention what is the right dress code applied (apart from the fact that women should cover their body), it clearly shows that the basic underlying concept is modesty. It is widely agreed that women who dressed and behaved modestly are respectable, and it helps in having respectful relationship with other women and men in their daily life. This is the most important reason behind the rules set in Islam, in which it gives total respect to women with regards to their body and preserve their dignity, and at the same time act as a guard and protection to them, at least to a certain extent, from being physically and emotionally harassed.

The Qur'ân further extend the guidelines in relation to the Muslim woman's dress code through the following verse:

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof, that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hand posses, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye believers ! Turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss." (Sura' An-Nur : 31)

Religion is the first resort of a scoundrel(M.Winn, 2003)



To: Sun Tzu who wrote (119397)11/13/2003 4:06:33 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Sun Tzu. You said...." So while you have people like Saudi and Taliban who effectively limit women to house arrest, you also have people like Khomeini in Iran who decreed half of all university students should be women. Funny enough I never hear about this part of the Islamic Republic of Iran when women's issues are discussed."....

And it appears Khomeini decreed other things as well.

Establishment of the Islamic Republic in Iran & The Present Situation For Women
homa.org

When the Islamic Republic was established in Iran in 1979, the country experienced a dramatic return to the dark ages. Women were the first victims of the regression. More than 130 years of struggle was repudiated by the medieval religious rulers.

In March 1979, Khomeini employed the hijab as a symbol of struggle against imperialism and corruption. He declared that "women should not enter the ministries of the Islamic Republic bare-headed. They may keep on working provided that they wear the hijab."

In 1980, Khomeini declared that, "from now on women have no right to be present in the governmental administration NAKED. They can carry on their tasks, provided they use Islamic dress."

Women did not remain silent. They launched campaigns in the major cities of the country. In the Summer 1981, however, wearing the Islamic outfit in the government offices and ministries became mandatory.

Once more, women marched in protest. This time, however, the Islamic Republic was well established and the media were fully under its control. The Revolutionary Council threatened those women who ignored the Islamic outfit with dismissal.

Dress Code
In 1981, women's "Freedom of Dress" of 1926 was declared as null and void. Based on the writings of Koran, the Sura of Lights, God apparently told Prophet Mohammed that, "Prophet, tell your wives (he had somewhere between 16 to 25 wives most of them forty plus years his junior), daughters, and other women who believe in me to conceal their eyes and their treasures from the sight of strangers".

The problem in the Islamic world, however, is to know how far a woman should be dressed to conceal her treasures. According to the Mullah's, "the limit has also been set by God. Therefore, the Litham should rise to the chin and only the outline of the face may be seen. The body should be covered to the wrists. Thus Chador is a perfect outfit."

For most women, especially the professional ones, however this kind of treasures concealing is quite cumbersome and uncomfortable. Women who do not conceal their hair or expose their feet and those who seem to be wearing a veil but actually do so negligently, should be severely punished, per order of the present government.

The government of clergy believes that, "women who do not comply with the strict rules of hijab promote a contemptuous attitude towards themselves becoming mere objects for men's pleasure. Moreover, such conduct causes a drop in the marriage rate. A woman with a pleasant appearance hinders other girls from finding a husband. It also makes the selection difficult for men.They will constantly think of a model who is beyond everybody."

The Ministry of Education specifies the color and the style of the suited clothing for the girl students (black, straight and covered from head to toe for children as young as 6 years of age). And the Ministry of Guidance sets the rules of clothing for older women (only black, brown and dark blue -Islamic colors- are allowed. Bright colors, especially red are prohibited).

It has been reported that on August 15, 1991, the Prosecutor-General, Abolfazl Musavi-Tabrizi, said that "anyone who rejects the principle of hijab in Iran is an apostate and the punishment for an apostate under Islamic-law is death."

To suppress the refractory women, the government set up special units. Revolutionary Guards patrol the streets and arrest any woman not observing the Islamic hijab.

Education
"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or what ever careers which may require decision making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for theses careers." Ayatollah Mutahari,(one of the principal ideologues of the Islamic Republic of Iran).

The Islamic Law bans women from becoming judges. In Article 163 of The Islamic Constitution where the qualifications for becoming a judge is decided according to the religious measures, women have been specified as unqualified for the job.

Women are banned from studies such as engineering, agriculture, archaeology, restoration of the historic monuments and handicrafts, and many other fields.

Khomeini was stressing over and over that, "All our societies' miseries come from universities." He also has said that "Economy is a matter of donkeys" and "War is a blessing".

Marriage
Under the Islamic Rules, the family protection law has been abrogated. The Islamic Republic resolutely supports the practice of polygamy.

Under the Islamic Republic, provisional marriage was sanctioned. Consequently, a man may marry "four Permanent" and as many "Provisional" wives as he desires.

The marriage age for girls was reduced to 13 and with the father's consent, a girl may marry at the age of nine. No restriction on the age of the man. In recent years the marriage age for women has been reduced to 9 years of age.

"The most suitable time for a girl to get married is the time when the girl can have her first menstrual period in her husband's house rather than her father's." Ayatollah Khomeini.

Iranian women are prevented to marry foreigners unless they obtain a written permission from the Ministry of Interior. The Ministry of Interior's Director General for the Affairs of Foreign Citizens and Immigrants, Ahmad Hosseini, stated on 30 March 1991: "Marriages between Iranian women and foreign men will create many problems for these women and their children in future, because the marriages are not legally recognized. Religious registrations of such marriages will not be considered as sufficient documentation to provide legal services to these families."

Divorce
The Unilateral rights to divorce was re-established. Therefore, a husband may divorce his wife without her knowledge. It is absolutely lawful for a woman to receive her divorce deed with no prior consultation.

According to the Islamic Republic's Canon Law, divorce is an indisputable right of men, unless otherwise is stated in the act of marriage.

Custody of Children
Women can not have the custody of their children unless there is no male relative in the father's family. In case of dissolution of marriage, a mother's right of custody over her children is limited to the son up to 2 years of age and to the daughter under 7 years, even when the father has died. At the end of this "legal" period the child should be returned to the father with no visitation rights for the mother. If the father is dead, the children must be handed over to the father's family.

The Law of Retribution
According to clauses 33 and 91 of the law in respect, Qasas (The Islamic Retribution Bill) and its boundaries, the value of woman witness is considered only half as much as of a man.

According to the Islamic Penal Law which is being practiced by the present regime of Iran, "a woman is worth half of a man."

According to the old Islamic laws, practiced by the Islamic Republic of Iran, the worth of a man's life is equal to100 camels or 200 cows and that of a woman is equal to half of the man's, 50 camels or 100 cows.

The clause number 6 regarding the Dieh (cash value of the fine) states that the cash fine for murdering a woman intentionally or unintentionally is half as much as for a man. The same clause adds that if a man intentionally murders a woman and the guardian of the woman himself is not able to pay half of the Dieh (the value of 50 camels or 100 cows, the difference between the value of a man to that of a woman's life) to the murderer the murderer will be exempted from retribution.

Personal Rights
Women inherit only half as much as their male siblings.

In accordance with a draft resolution presented to the Majlis (The Islamic Parliament ) in May 1991, unmarried women and girls will not be allowed to leave the country. Although at present there is no law forbidding girls from leaving the country, authorities, in practice, create many obstacles for those who wish to leave. The authorities are allegedly in particular severe with those unmarried women and girls who have won scholarships to study abroad.

A married woman cannot travel, work, join organizations, go to college, even visit her friends and relatives without her husband's permission. Married women are not allowed to travel abroad without presenting a written permission from their husbands to the authorities.

A woman should dwell where her husband desires.

A married woman should always and unconditionally be ready to meet her husband's sexual needs and if she refuses, she loses all rights of shelter, food, clothing etc.

"A married woman should endure any violence or torture imposed on her by her husband for she is fully at his disposal. Without his permission she may not leave her house even for a good action (such as charitable work). Otherwise her prayers and devotions will not be accepted by God and curses of heaven and earth will fall upon her." Hojatoleslam Imani, Religious Leader.

Punishment
A couple of weeks following Dr. Homa Darabi's self-immolation, a young woman was stoned to death in the city of Qom in front of her husband and her two small children. Her guilt was adultery, even though no man was found to have had a relation with her. She did not receive any trial and was not allowed to have an attorney. A Mullah convicted her in less than sixty second and the stoning took place the next day. Her head was shaven and she was buried in mod up to her shoulders. Reported by Iranian Radio News.

Stoning
According to the article 115 of Penal laws in the Islamic Republic on stoning, if the person condemned to stoning flees from the hole where he or she has been buried in, down to the waist, he or she should be returned and the punishment should be carried out. But if the person confesses to the fornication and the escape takes place after the first stone was thrown, the person must be left alone unharmed.

Article 116 of Penal laws in the Islamic Republic on stoning, says that the stones used in stoning should neither be big as to kill the convict at the first or second blow, nor as small as a pebble.

Female Political Prisoners
Under the Islamic Republic, most of the female political prisoners are charged with waging war against God. Thus, according to the Islamic Officials they are war prisoners and may be considered as the slaves of the Islamic Warriors. Consequently, the guardians of the revolution, namely the Pasdars, may treat them as they like. Each woman in the prison belongs to one guard. He may lawfully consider his slave as a concubine and force her into sexual intercourse or inflict other tortures on her.

In his 1992 report, the United Nations Special Representative, Commission on Human Rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran, writes that, "requests made by the victims from their parents to supply them with contraceptives and the silence of the Islamic officials who have refused to deny the above charges are alarming clues which confirm such allegations."

Girls condemned to death may not undergo the sentence as long as they are virgins. Thus they are systematically raped before the sentence is executed.

To rape women prisoners, especially virgin girls, who are accused of being against the regime, is a normal and daily practice in the Islamic Republic's prisons, and by doing so, the clergies declare that they adhere to the merits of the Islamic principles and laws, preventing a virgin girl to go to heaven. Mullahs believe that these are ungodly creatures and they do not deserve the heaven, therefore they are raped to make sure that they will end up in hell.

Despite the fact that all Conventions and agreed covenants of the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights have to be strictly observed by the member states, the Islamic republic of Iran's Constitution mentions nothing about the equality of men and women. The Article 19 of the Islamic Constitution concerning the equality of people is quite silent where the sex is concerned.

Female Executions
The latest reports published by various international organizations such as Amnesty International and the United Nation's Human Rights Commission give a clear picture of the circumstances that Iranian women are suffering under. They are denied the most basic human rights.

Thousands and thousands of women have been imprisoned, raped, flogged, shot, hanged, or stoned to death, mostly under false accusations and all has been done under the name of God and apparently in accordance with the Islamic judicial system.

According to the report published by the Organization of Women Against Execution in Iran, the number of women executed from 1981 through1990, exceeds a few thousands. The Organization has been able to prepare a list containing 1428 names. Some of the data were gathered through the official channels and some from the relatives of the victims. According to this report out of 1428 women executed, 187 were under the age of 18, with 9 girls under the age of 13, 32 women were pregnant, and 14 were between the ages of 45 to 72 at the time of their execution. The youngest girl executed was 10 years and the oldest was 70 years of age.

On his last visit to Iran, in 1991, Professor Reynaldo Galinde Pohl, Special Representative of the United Nation's Human Rights Commission, interviewed the Islamic Republic's Minister of Justice, Mr. Hojatolislam Esmail Shoushtari:

"Referring to the penalties of amputation and stoning, he (The Minister) indicated that Iran's system of government was Islamic, thus Islamic laws were enforced and some penalties could not be changed. Murder, for example, was punished by the death penalty, and that rule could not be changed; however, judges were empowered to negotiate with the victims' relatives to replace the death penalty by another, and that did happen in 95 per cent of cases. Theft was punished by amputation, and adultery by stoning (to death). Those penalties could not be changed, because they were punishments especially established under Islam."

All the authoritative international documentation and testimony gathered in the last 17 years of the life of the Islamic Regime in Iran is full of unceasing, systematic brutality, and oppression of masses, especially women.

Professional Aspirations
Women are also denied any political, spiritual or leadership aspirations in Iran. Article 115 of the Islamic Constitution clearly states that the president of the country should be elected a Man out of all God-fearing and dedicated men. This brings the conception that a woman can neither be president nor possess the rank of Valiat-e-Faghih (the religious spiritual leader) or the position of leader of a Shi'i-Muslim nation.

Marching Backward
With the establishment of the Islamic Republic Iranian women have lost all the 'Rights' they had fought for and achieved in the past 130 years. They are socially segregated, and reduced to lower individuals and second-rank citizens.

Hashemi Rafsanjani, President of the Islamic Republic, of Iran recently discovered the difference between men and women. In his quote, he says.

"Equality does not take precedence over justice. Justice does not mean that all laws must be the same for men and women. One of the mistakes the Westerners make is to forget this. The difference in the stature, vitality, voice, development, muscular quality and physical strength of men and women show that men are stronger and more capable in all fields. Men's brain is bigger so men are more inclined to fight and women are more excitable. Men are inclined to reasoning and rationalism, while women have a fundamental tendency to be emotional. The tendency to protect is stronger in men, where as most women like to be protected. Such differences affect the delegation of responsibilities, duties, and rights."



To: Sun Tzu who wrote (119397)11/13/2003 4:10:10 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 281500
 
Sun Tzu. lots of stuff out there about khomeini.

Today in Iran
The marriage age for girls has been reduced to 9 years of age.
homa.org

"The most suitable time for a girl to get married is the time when the girl can have her first menstrual period in her husband's house rather than her father's." - Ayatollah Khomeini

"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or what ever careers which may require decision making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for theses careers." - Ayatollah Mutahari

Men sit in the front of the bus while women sit in the back. Married couples are not allowed to sit together in the public transportation.

Men and women are not allowed to swim, ski, play tennis, or perform any sports together, even if they are related to each other.

Married couples, brothers and sisters, fathers and daughters, mothers and sons and other kin related must have the proof of kinship at all times.

Single women are not allowed to rent a car, hotel room, travel alone or marry foreigners without the permission of the governmental officials.

Women are only to see female doctors and dentists and are to be tought by female teachers and professors. In a country that education is denied for women, it be difficult to find female of any profession. This only proves that the Islamic Republic has no respect for women and their lives.

Men cannot study gynecology and obstetrics. Men are not allowed to examine the reproductive part of women.

Women who slightly break the rules of hijab are given a document to sign which requires them to admit to prostitution and for this they are flagellated 150 times.

People are not allowed to have music, dancing, parties or any other social gathering even in the privacy of their own homes.

The only thing married couples are allowed to do together is to bread and they have been quite successful at it. In the past 16 years the population of Iran has doubled from 35 million to nearly 70 million with approximately five million living abroad.

The only things the Islamic Republic has brought to the Iranian people are poverty, pain and misery. We, the freedom loving Iranian people, condemn the barbaric Government of Islamic Republic and ask for helping hands from all freedom fighters all over the globe in order to separate church and state in Iran, to establish the Universal Human Rights as declared by the United Nations 1948 General Assembly, to bring about the equality between men and women of Iran and to abolish the sexual apartheid.

Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation, a non profit organization independent from all political and religious factions in Iran, is looking for your full support including financial to support the Iranian population in fighting the above barbaric laws and to educate women about their rights and how to stand for them.



To: Sun Tzu who wrote (119397)11/13/2003 5:02:44 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Islamic societies have deteriorated for the same reasons that Europe sank into the dark ages. They stopped freedom and equality and got tangled more with tradition than wisdom of those traditions.

I'm unsure about any "freedom and equality" in pre-dark-ages Europe, but in any case, Islamic societies are going to go the way of the Church when Europe exited from the Middle Ages. And in a lot less time. They will reform or be doomed, it's as simple as that. Our adventuring in Iraq won't make any difference in the long term outcome.

All of these established religions were "theories of everything" from times when there was simply no scientific tradition to promote a rational world view, and are based more on wishful thinking than observed reality. The earth being the center of the universe is the classic from the Christian era.

But the "observed reality" that will really make the difference this century is that China will become the world economic and probably technological leader, and alternative energy sources will be found as the need becomes pressing, cutting off the easy money behind the worst of the obscurantist Islamic variants. This will ultimately bring the badly needed reform, where about everything else will fail.

Note well that when I say "reform", I don't mean throwing everything out as in some kind of revolution and anarchy.



To: Sun Tzu who wrote (119397)11/13/2003 7:15:29 PM
From: Ish  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
<<Bible allows selling your daughter into slavery>>

It does? Not the Bible I read. Twice all the way through.



To: Sun Tzu who wrote (119397)11/13/2003 11:07:58 PM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
It is not acceptable to you and me, but it is arrogant to demand others live their lives to our liking.

Well, that's exactly the type of system I was advocating. I prefer to live in a civil society which is structured on the principles of live and let live. You, too, apparently. And we can look over our borders at people who prefer to live a different way, and give thanks that we don't live there. And if they try to come here, blow them away.

Well, I don't expect you to agree to blowing them away, so I guess you and I will probably need to live in different countries, or at least agree to disagree.

Funny enough I never hear about this part of the Islamic Republic of Iran when women's issues are discussed.

Yeah, I know you're either from Iran or have family from there, or a strong connection that makes you feel like an expert on All Things Iranian, but there's a lady who just got a Nobel Prize who says you're wrong. Funny enough I believe her and not you.

You are not giving them enough credit.

Sez you. The more I studied it, the more I realized that the Muslims are like the Soviets, they claim they invented everything, including baseball.

I don't know jack about math, but I know Newton invented calculus. The Hindus claim that they invented the concept of zero, and so do the Muslims, but in fact it was invented somewhere in Southeast Asia. Not sure what is meant by that, I assume Vietnam. What we call today algebra was invented by the Egyptians, the Greeks, and the Hindus, but translated by the Arabs. (See, for example, Diophantes of Alexandria and the Rhind Papyrus.)

So, it's not at all surprising that the Muslims haven't invented anything in a long, long time. They never did.

Scientific freedom and faith are antithetical. Scientists are funny, they don't like being told what to believe. Making people bow down on their hands and knees six times a day and telling them their heads will be cut off if they don't submit is not exactly conducive to free thought.

It's conducive to group thought.