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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (4518)	11/15/2003 9:25:53 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

A nasty situation: Protests Grow in Georgia; Crisis Deepens Shevardnadze warns of threat of civil war. He hints that he may quit if opposition backs down. By David Holley, Times Staff Writer MOSCOW — Georgian President Eduard A. Shevardnadze, appearing shaken by mounting protests demanding his resignation, pleaded with his countrymen Friday not to risk civil war — and hinted that if the crisis eases, he might resign. His critics responded by holding the largest in a series of daily anti-Shevardnadze demonstrations. Mikheil Saakashvili, a key opposition leader, called for a civil disobedience campaign starting today aimed at paralyzing the government. Accused by opposition leaders of rigging the results of Nov. 2 parliamentary elections, Shevardnadze declared in a nationally televised news conference Friday morning that whatever vote-counting irregularities had occurred could be corrected, but insisted that the new parliament should be allowed to open later this month. "Once the parliament begins to work and the legislative branch enters into force, then maybe I will be the first to sign an act of resignation of the president," Shevardnadze said. "But to resign now would be an irresponsible step on my part." Shevardnadze begged citizens not to join an afternoon protest in the capital, Tbilisi, warning that even if opposition leaders did not want violence, the situation risked escalation. "I will not allow a split in society followed by confrontation and a civil war," he said. "This is a real danger. I am not threatening anyone. I am simply telling you the truth. Before it is too late, we should come to our senses." Although the protest went ahead as planned, both demonstrators and police showed restraint. News agencies estimated the crowd, which gathered near parliament, at 15,000 to 20,000. Russian television showed helmeted riot police with shields — some wearing masks — watching over the demonstration. Protesters marched from parliament to the heavily guarded State Chancellery, which houses Shevardnadze's offices and residence. Saakashvili urged them to form a "human chain" in nearby streets to encircle the building, which they did, according to reports from Tbilisi. Then he made his announcement calling for a civil disobedience campaign and told the crowd that the rally would resume Monday. "We are declaring total civil disobedience to President Shevardnadze's regime," Saakashvili told the crowd in comments broadcast on Georgian television. "I want to call on police not to obey the unlawful orders of the regime," he said. "I want to call on the army not to act on the unlawful commander-in-chief's illegal orders. I want to call on the business representatives: 'Pay only those taxes that will go toward payment of salaries and pensions.' " Counting of ballots from the Nov. 2 election continues but has slowed in recent days, with initial results annulled in some districts due to irregularities. Earlier this week, with more than 90% of the ballots counted, parties likely to support Shevardnadze in parliament had 41% support and opposition groups had 38%. The opposition contends that the president stole the election and may be able to control parliament as a result. Fears of violence built Friday afternoon after Irana Sarishvili, a leader of a pro-Shevardnadze bloc, For a New Georgia, told journalists that about 200 of the protesters were carrying weapons, and Interior Minister Koba Narchemashvili warned of "dire consequences" if armed opposition were to storm the presidential offices or residence. The current crisis in Georgia evokes sharp memories of the political turbulence and warfare that marred the early years of the country's independence. A civil war during the 1991-92 winter led to the ouster of Georgia's first democratically elected leader, Zviad Gamsakhurdia. Military leaders then invited Shevardnadze to assume power. Shevardnadze has been respected in the West for his role, as Soviet foreign minister, in helping to end the Cold War. But during Friday's rally, Saakashvili compared him to the late Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu and ousted Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic — analogies he has made before. "We are no worse than the Romanians and the Serbs, who overthrew their rulers," Saakashvili declared. Ceausescu was overthrown in 1989 and executed by firing squad. Milosevic was driven from office in 2000 after massive demonstrations protesting electoral fraud; he is on trial in The Hague for alleged war crimes. Shevardnadze ridiculed this kind of verbal attack. "I am not frightened," he declared. "I will not share the fate of either Ceausescu or Milosevic."

To: epicure who wrote (4518)	11/15/2003 7:01:16 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

X, You are exactly correct in that statement. The right wing has a horrible habit. It never stops lying. Ever. Here's another perfect example. C-SPAN just featured Andy Card, the White House Chief of Staff. He was giving a speech at the Federalist Society, a very right wing bunch. During the speech, he rewrote the history of the morning of 9/11. Two lies were obvious. The first was that he came up with a polished cover story for Card's conversation with Bush about the first airliner to hit the World Trade Center, but before Bush entered the classroom at Booker Elementary. Card spun a story about how they'd thought a general aviation pilot had suffered a heart attack. This is the first time in two years that that "story" has surfaced. Sounds like PR spin to my ears. Secondly, and a much more serious lie was that Card said that Bush "immediately" reacted to news of the second airliner attack on the WTC. I don't know what planet Card lives on. Here on earth "immediately" means within a few seconds. George Bush is caught on video, looking like a stone faced zombie after Card spoke to him. And Bush did not get out of that chair for 15-20 minutes! That's not quite immediately, in the English language. But in the twisted world of spin, lies and deceit, Card is no longer able to deal in reality. Perhaps the whole lot of them in the White House are sincere, but simply insane. They certainly are masterful liars. Or at least consistent about it. BTW, here's my favorite rant-of-the-day: Message 19504599 To:Raymond Duray who wrote (3988) From: Rock_nj Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 7:39 AM View Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4004 It's a joke to look back on the lies that Clinton told the country about his sexual behavior, in light of the lies coming out of Washington, DC over the past 2 years. Clinton was actually impeached for those harmless lies regarding his problems keeping his pants on?!? Now, we've got a President who lies routinely. Who lies about really important stuff regarding all of our national security. There have been so many lies and retractions and changes of stories surrounding 9/11 that it really makes me wonder if anything coming out of DC these days can be trusted. We have a President who lied about our reasons for going to war and has caused the death of at least 350 servicemen and women to date and countless suffering for their families and friends. No talk of impeachment for these really harmful lies, lies that have caused Americans to suffer and die, lies that have compromised our national security, made our country a less safe place to live, and has hurt our standing in the world community. Amazing! This country really is screwed up. We impeach a man for lying about his sexual escapades and don't even mention the "I" word concerning a man that has caused death, suffering and a major loss of prestige for our country as a result of his lying. Bush's Record going in 2004: 3 million jobs lost Surplus to biggest deficit in history Relatively peaceful period, to period of endless war Worst terrorist attacks in our nation's history Routine lying and unprecedented secrecy Lying about our reasons for going to war And the American people might actually re-elect this guy. I mean come on people, wake up, President Bush has got to be about the worst thing ever to happen to our country in recent memory. He does not deserve to be re-elected. He serves a constiuency (ths super rich) who couldn't give a rats ass about everyone else in America. They're moving our jobs overseas and rolling back our social progress made since the early 20th Century, bring us into to war for THEIR benefit. The lunatics are running the asylum and will continue to do so until the American sheeple wake up. Which apparently will NEVER happen. It took the American people five years or more to wake up to the fraud known as Viet Nam. Apparently, they never learned any lessons from that debacle.