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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: E who wrote (119699)11/16/2003 1:32:52 PM
From: Nadine Carroll  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
I will contemplate all sorts of unpleasant possibilities, E. I just refuse to rely on the word of Scott Ritter for any of them. It is usually a mistake to listen to a man who has flipped his story three or four times, just because you want to believe it this time.



To: E who wrote (119699)11/16/2003 4:06:25 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Respond to of 281500
 
on top of no WMD having been found (as Ritter said they wouldn't be),

Hmm... which Ritter should we believe? The one who stated after 5 years of NO INSPECTIONS that there were no WMD's in Iraq??

Or the one who stated UNDER OATH in September, 1998, that he was resigning BECAUSE THE US WAS NOT PROVIDING SUFFICIENT SUPPORT TO FACILITATE THE DISCOVERY OF IRAQ'S WMDS (which he THEN firmly believed existed):

existentialmoo.com

Excerpts taken from the testimony of Scott Ritter, former UNSCOM Inspector before the U.S. Senate

September 3, 1998

MR. RITTER: Mr. Chairman, members of the committee; last week I resigned my position out of frustration that the United Nations Security Council, and the United States as its most significant supporter, was failing to enforce the post-Gulf War resolutions designed to disarm Iraq. I can speak to you today from firsthand experience about the effectiveness of American policy or lack thereof, with respect to the United Nations's effort to rid Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction. I sincerely hope that my actions might help to change things.

It was very sad to hear the secretary of State (Note: Madeline Albright) on Tuesday night giving an interview from Moscow challenging my credentials. She told the world through CNN that Scott Ritter doesn't have a clue about what our overall policy has been, that we are the foremost supporters of UNSCOM. I do have a clue, in fact several, all of which indicate that our government has clearly expressed its policy in one way and then acted in another. Such clues include various statements by the secretary of State, a report to Congress on 6 April by the president of the United States and several statements made to me and to other UNSCOM officials at a variety of inter-agency briefings held at the State Department, the Pentagon and the White House. If these were the only clues, the administration's record would be impressive. However, I can say without fear of contradiction and with the confidence that most of my former colleagues agree with me that those clues derive from the practical experience obtained on the ground in Iraq and behind the scenes at the United Nations tell another story: that the United States has undermined UNSCOM's efforts through interference and manipulation, usually coming from the highest levels of the administration's national security team, to include the secretary of State herself.

Iraq today is not disarmed, and remains an ugly threat to its neighbors and to world peace. Those American who think that this is important and that something should be done about it have to be deeply disappointed in our leadership. I'm here today to provide you with specific details about the scope and nature of interference by this administration in UNSCOM, the debilitating effect that such interference has on the ability of UNSCOM to carry out its disarmament mission in Iraq and to appeal to the administration and to the Senate to work together to change America's Iraq policy back to what has been stated in the past: full compliance with the provisions of Security Council resolutions, to include enabling UNSCOM to carry out its mission of disarmament in an unrestricted, unhindered fashion. Only through the reestablishment of such a policy, clearly stated and resolutely acted upon, does the United States have a chance of resuming its leadership role in overseeing the effective and verifiable disarmament of Iraq so that neither we nor Iraq's neighbors in the Middle East will be threatened by Saddam Hussein's nuclear, chemical or biological weapons or long-range ballistic missiles capable of delivering such weapons. Within the confines of the need to protect the sources and methods used by the special commission to gather relevant information, I am prepared to give you whatever details I can so you will understand why I gave up such an interesting, challenging and meaningful position in which I had hoped to have the chance to contribution to making the world a little safer. Thank you.


*********************************

So which Scott Ritter should we believe E?? UNSCOM inspections terminated in July, 1998, shortly before Mr. Ritter's testimony. They terminated because UNSCOM discovered an Iraqi Air Force document detailing that some 6,000 chemical warheads, supposedly expended during the war with Iran, had NOT BEEN EXPENDED (only 13,000 used instead of the 19,000 claimed by Iraq in 1991).

The document was discovered by an inspector who, when it was realized the astounding nature of the 6 page document, began taking notes. Almost immediately their Iraqi "minder" confiscated the document and Iraq refused to provide it until November, 2002 (after UNSC 1441 was passed and Iraq only had 90 days to account for it's missing WMD inventories.).. But when provided, no explanation or accounting was ever made by Iraq.

So, I have to ask again.. If Scott Ritter was SO CONVINCED in September, 1998 about the existence of Iraq's WMD program, EXACTLY WHAT made him change his mind over the following 5 years WHEN NO INSPECTIONS WERE TAKING PLACE..

Anyone reading those quotes, without being aware of the time frame they were made, would have to believe that Ritter was being a "shill" for the Bush administration in 2002.

But if anything, it appeared that the Clinton administration was cozying up with the French, who wanted to lift sanctions against Iraq that year (prior to the discovery of that document, which few of us heard about at the time.. Dare we imply "cover up" of incriminating intelligence by the previous administration?).

On WHAT BASIS was he making such ludicrous statements?

Or was it that he was bought off with $400,000 worth of Iraqi money (for his movie)..

Care to offer an opinion?

Hawk



To: E who wrote (119699)11/16/2003 4:21:32 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Respond to of 281500
 
Want some more of Mr. Ritter's testimony from 1998?

existentialmoo.com

MR. RITTER: Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, I cannot speak on behalf of the International Atomic Energy Agency. Nuclear disarmament issues in Iraq are their purview. But what I can say is that we have clear evidence that Iraq is retaining prohibited weapons capabilities in the fields of chemical, biological and ballistic- missile delivery systems of a range of greater than 150 kilometers. And if Iraq has undertaken a concerted effort run at the highest levels inside Iraq to retain these capabilities, then I see no reason why they would not exercise the same sort of concealment efforts for their nuclear programs.

And guess what E..??

David Kay DID DISCOVER that Saddam was STILL building rockets that would exceed the limits set in UNSC 687.

Maybe "the old" Mr. Ritter might have been right, after all...

How about some more??

MR. RITTER: Yes, sir. Again, I believe that the February agreement is part of a cycle of activity which has started earlier -- much earlier -- in fact, the summer of 1996, in which Iraq provokes a confrontation with weapons inspectors, knowing that there will not be consensus for decisive action in the Security Council and as a result gets a concession from the Security Council. What happened in February is such a concession. Why the United States supports this is that they, I believe they are understanding that it's difficult to put together a coalition, and they want to keep the inspection process moving forward. However, they're in a situation where by saving the inspection process they are destroying the inspection process. And this is one reason why I felt the need to resign; I would not be part of a destruction of something of this nature.

Very powerful statement by Mr. Ritter.. Effectively asserting that the entire "inspection process" was rigged from the beginning for failure, or to only achieve cosmetic results.

Are these the kinds of inspections that so many people out there wanted to perpetuate with UNMOVIC??

Oh.. and btw y'all, Mr. Ritter understands the nature of Chapter 7 of the UN charter, unlike so many people amongst you all:

MR. RITTER: Yes, sir, one of my frustrations is that the Special Commission has been handed what indeed is a good task -- to rid the world of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. And the Security Council, in passing its resolution under Chapter 7, said that is was an enforceable task.

And this important comment:

MR. RITTER: The issue of enforcing Security Council resolutions belongs to the Security Council and its collective member states. I am a weapons inspector. I have been tasked with carrying out Security Council resolutions which call for the disarmament of Iraq. The Security Council has established the law. We have been told to implement the law. And if blocked, the Security Council has promised to enforce the law. How they choose to enforce it is their business. What I am saying today is we are being blocked from doing our job.

So what happened to the UNSC's promise to "enforce the law", E??

Why does the UNSC pass laws that it has no intention of enforcing?

Stand by and maybe I'll post some more of Mr. Ritter's testimony..

****************



To: E who wrote (119699)11/16/2003 4:38:09 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Ya know something?? I'm wondering if Mr. Ritter is a victim of mind control or something.. When one reads his 1998 testimony to the Senate, you can tell he has a very sound grasp of the authority under which he was conducting "inspections".

Here he makes a point that I've been consistently making.. That the authority for UN members (who are authorized to enforce binding UN resolutions, to use military force has a basis in UNSC 678 and 687, and such authority has not been rescinded:

existentialmoo.com

MR. RITTER: The threat of force was made back in April 1991 when the Security Council together with the vote and pushing and backing of the United States passed the original cease-fire resolution. I don't see anything that would have caused the law to be altered. Iraq has not been disarmed. I would assume that that threat of force still exists today.

**********************
And a little exchange between Sen. Biden and Ritter about what should trigger use of force:

SEN. BIDEN: I am trying to get this as clear as I can. I really mean this now. You have an absolute logic; you put together a very tight syllogism here. You have indicated that your job is to disarm. The only way you can disarm is to have access. And the only way you can have access is either with permission on the part of Iraq, or if denied, forced access. Right?

MR. RITTER: Compelled access, yes.

SEN. BIDEN: "Compelled." Well, okay, compelled. You sound like the lawyer, and I sound like the military guy. (Chuckles.) I mean, you know, compelled where I come from -- when my old man said, "You're compelled," it meant "I was forced." I mean, it was a real simple proposition. It wasn't -- you know, there wasn't much to debate. Now there is a clear logic to that, and that's what I mean when I say I respect your position. But that means that whenever your choose a target that warrants inspection and you are denied, that ipso facto at that moment the only way your position can be satisfied or sustained is if the U.N. Security Council, or the United States acting unilaterally, uses force to guarantee access. Is not that true?

MR. RITTER: Yes, sir.


And maybe one more tidbit from the Mr. Ritter you all seem to love to quote with your "no WMD mantra"..

See next post..

Hawk



To: E who wrote (119699)11/16/2003 4:46:10 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
And what makes Scott Ritter believe that UNMOVIC would have succeeded where UNSCOM had failed in 1998?:

SEN. WARNER: Had this cessation of inspections not happened, can you provide the committee -- committees with any estimate of how much longer your teams and others would have to do their work and the likelihood of what they might find?

MR. RITTER: Sir, that's a question that Iraq keeps posing to the Special Commission: how much longer will this go on? The fact of the matter is that since April 1991 under the direct orders and direction of the President of Iraq the government of Iraq has lied to the Special Commission about the totality of its holdings. We cannot conduct verification of Iraq's compliance with Security Council resolutions without an understanding of what there was to begin with. Iraq not only lied to us in April 1991. In the summer of 1991 they conducted what they call unilateral destruction: that is, they disposed of certain materials without the presence of weapons inspectors and then destroyed the records of this alleged destruction. They also diverted certain materials to the presidential security forces. This has confused an already confusing situation. We do not know the totality of what Iraq has. What we do know is that the declarations they have made to the Special Commission to date are false. And the explanations that they give to us about how they disposed of weapons are wrong. And therefore we know we have a job to do. How much longer will it take? I can say this, and I'll echo the words of the executive chairman. If Iraq gave us today a full and final accounting of all of its weapons of mass destruction -- programs and retained weapons capabilities -- our job would be over very quickly. But because we don't have such an accounting, our job has become a mission of discovery. We must go forth and find these weapons that Iraq is hiding. And that could go on a very long time, especially given the level of Iraqi obstruction today.


One more post from Mr. Ritter, I think.. A nice coup de grace...

Hawk



To: E who wrote (119699)11/16/2003 5:16:46 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Now everyone has berated Bush for claiming that the US had the unilateral right to respond with military force.. That he couldn't make such a decision without the "permission" of the UN..

But why didn't the UN have the same reaction with the previous administration when Clinton said the VERY SAME THING???!!:

SEN. COATS: -- to pursue evidence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. The president in his April 6th message says: I believe if Iraq does not keep his word, we would have a unilateral right to respond. He also said, "The United States remains resolved and ready to secure by whatever means necessary Iraq's full compliance with its commitment to destroy its weapons of mass destruction." I think on the basis of that, any reasonable person would conclude that you had the authority to go ahead and demand complete immediate right of inspection?

MR. RITTER: Yes, sir.


*******************

There you go... Sen. Coats quoting Bill Clinton from April 6th, 1998.. (still looking for a link that has a copy of that speech).

Oh goodness.. so MANY "golden moments" in this testimony, E... Thanks for motivating me to research this.. ;0)

This little "diddie" from one of the major CURRENT opponents to Bush's decision to militarily enforce the UNSC resolutions:

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. And, Major, thank you very much for being here, and thank you for doing what you're doing. You know, I think one of the big problems is that, with respect to the congressional action in February, I think the case has never really been made to the American people and perhaps even to this Congress. And I think what you're doing today is effectively making the case because what's clear to me at least is that the United States at this time, cannot afford to be a paper tiger and neither can the Security Council. And if that's going to be the case, then we might as well just pull up our stakes and move away. Having said that, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions because I think what this does is in essence join a national debate on the subject: Are we going to press for full inspection? Are we going to do what we say we're going to do, or are we going to back away when the going gets rough? I want to refer, if I can, to your article in the Wall Street Journal this morning. And you mention that on July 15th representatives -- and I take it you used the word "both countries," that's the United States and Great Britain --

Ohh.. That was just WONDERFUL to find that quote.. Just WONDERFUL!!!

Diane Feinstein telling the American people that the US can't be seen as a "paper tiger" in this inspection process..

Oh Joy!!!!!!

Listen folks.. I hope all of you who continue to see Mr. Ritter as some kind of currently reputable source should read all of his testimony.. If there's anything that credible about Mr. Ritter, it's probably his testimony about a subject that, at that time, had ample confirmation from other sources.

Hawk