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To: greenspirit who wrote (17512)	11/24/2003 6:34:43 AM
From: unclewest	Respond to of 793801

Hi Michael, That subject has been tossed around here often. The refusal of local school boards and university boards and administrators to implement performance based standards for teachers is but one part of the problem. The concept of tenure must be abolished. Nobody should have a guaranteed, lifelong, publicly-funded job with self-imposed standards and no supervision. Parents deserve some of the blame too. Setting standards and requiring them to be met is not just a job for teachers. My wife tutors newly arrived refugee kids everyday (As a volunteer). Part of her teaching is to teach the parents how to supervise, check papers and report cards etc. She also teaches them how to get help if the kid needs it. She takes the parents to the school and the classrooms, library, cafeteria, etc, so they understand where their kid is and at least have met the teachers. That parent interest is a vital part of child motivation. Using work as an excuse for parental non-involvement in a child's education is often done, but the results are not good. Many American parents have never been to their kids' school. uw

To: greenspirit who wrote (17512)	11/24/2003 7:12:40 AM
From: Lane3	Respond to of 793801

We have this myth that at some time in our past parents were totally involved with every aspect of their children's education. So we blame parents today for our failed school system. The truth is schools and teachers were given more freedom to discipline and set standards in the past. When a child failed the grade, they failed the darn grade! Thanks for saying that. The first dissent I've heard. Usually it's the repeated mantra about parental involvement. I remember my mother drilling me on spelling when I was in the third grade. That's about the point where my studies surpassed the ability of my parents to contribute in any substantive way. I was taught by teachers. My parents did their jobs and the teachers did theirs. Worked pretty well.

To: greenspirit who wrote (17512)	11/24/2003 11:46:42 PM
From: KLP	Respond to of 793801

We have this myth that at some time in our past parents were totally involved with every aspect of their children's education. So we blame parents today for our failed school system. The truth is schools and teachers were given more freedom to discipline and set standards in the past. When a child failed the grade, they failed the darn grade! Parents of 60 and 50 years ago were interested n their children's school work...BUT they were also dealing with the Great Depression, and fighting WWII, the Korean War, and working to make ends meet. Most women hadn't gone to the workplace, other than during WWII, when so many of the men had to go to war to protect our country. The kids understood that, and I believe, most of them tried to do their part at home. Most did not get a TV until the mid-late 40's or later. The parents, mostly Moms as the Dads couldn't get off from work, went to parent-teacher conferences to see what the kids were doing, or not as the case might have been. Most parents didn't do the homework, just made sure it was done. About the only time any parent was in the classroom in those years was as a Room Mother for special parties, or to go on a field trip. Kids flunked classes if they didn't do well in them, and had to re-do the classes, even if it hurt their little ego's. If they were naughty in class, they had to go to the principals' office. Heaven forbid that happened, because most of us knew there would be "trouble in River City" when we got home... Parents and teachers were partners, mostly. Most often, the teachers had the kids longer than did the parents during the week. Bad habits learned at school would not have been tolerated at home, and vice versa. Yes, there are many things different from that time than today. Some good, and some not so good.