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To: jkl77™ who wrote (268643)	11/24/2003 8:41:23 PM
From: heraclitus	Respond to of 436258

Great post!

To: jkl77™ who wrote (268643)	11/24/2003 9:03:33 PM
From: mishedlo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

I do however want to answer this i just want to make you aware that in MANY places on this earth, the gov't would come banging on your door in the middle of the night and drag you away never to be seen or heard from again for some of the posts you make,,,,, i say this for the veterans,,,, for they are the ones who made this possible for you and other malcontents,,,, First paragraph: Hell yes I understand that. I am very deeply upset by the patriot act that allows govt intrusion, holding of people without charges (in Cuba no less), spying on US citizens for almost any reason etc etc etc. We are rapidly becomming exactly what you detest IMO, and Bush is leading the way. Second Paragraph: Yep, we agree again. But.... How many more would have died in Vietnam had it not been for war protesters like me? Protests against the Vietnam war ended that idiocy, and protests against what we are doing in Iraq will probably at some point end that as well IF Bush is re-elected. If, not, Clark or someone else will pull out, cut our losses and be done for it. Thus: We should both be thankfull that we can protest, that we are protesting, and that voices of dissent are allowed. Right now IMO Bush is doing everything he can to stop that dissent and the patriot act is one scary MFing law that is probaly unconstitutional (but right now no one cares). M

To: jkl77™ who wrote (268643)	11/25/2003 1:39:28 AM
From: Perspective	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

< my father taught me there's 3 things you don't discuss in public,,, "politics, religion, and the family doctor"> You MUST talk about these things in public. We need MORE discussions of this, not less. Our politics are in real trouble - the influence of big money, big business, and the apathy of the common man is letting our "leaders" get away with murder. I saw just this afternoon that the rule that would require labeling of food with country of origin (so that consumers can identify imported meats or produce from countries with known problems with toxins, pesticides, or bacteria) was just postponed for two years. There is no way anyone can tell me that witholding this information is in the best interests of consumers. Meanwhile, they are trying to pass an "energy bill" which ignores the alternative fuels that the rest of the world is investigating, ignores greenhouse gas issues, and - get this - grants immunity for Bush's buddies who are faced with liabilities for producing MTBE, a potent toxic additive to gasonline. We need to get everyone thinking, because the problems we have require innovative solutions, and probably sacrifice on the part of most people - something our leadership has led us to believe is not necessary. Somebody's gotta watch the henhouse, or the foxes that are watching it for us are going to run off with everything we care about. BC