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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (120543)	11/27/2003 12:23:42 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

You always speak as if not only was the attachment of Jews to Israel farcical, but as if there were no Jews in Israel, when Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority or plurality since the Eighteenth Century at least, in modern times. As for the land being "somebody else's home", it was the Turks who ruled, or rather misruled the land, whose capital was in Damascus. The local people never had sovereignty. Now, I have never heard you wax indignant about how the Turks oppressed other people, or about how the implacable hatred their policies created should impact modern politics. Indeed, I have heard you express no sympathy for the implacable hatred of the Serbs towards the Muslim Bosnians and Kosovars, those Turkish remnants/converts in the Balkans. But if you ask the motivation for this hatred, the Serbs will tell you that they are just doing the Lord's work against the Turk. Yet somehow, when Jews enter the picture, the implacable hatred against them is excusable and it is the Israelis of today who should be making amends for it (as if that were possible short of suicide) - even though on any objective scale, the Jews' predicaments in the 20th century were far more dire than the Turks' and their desire for peaceful relations and treatment of minorities far, far better.

To: Dayuhan who wrote (120543)	11/27/2003 12:48:10 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

They knew what was happening and they fought against it. What less could you expect, and what more could you ask? The ability to negotiate, perhaps, and not stake everything to a ruinous maximalism? The ability to organize their own society, so that there was some Palestinian polity to talk to besides one ruling family and their thugs with guns? The Palestinians didn't have the best of choices, but they had both a colonial government and Zionist neighbors who could be argued with as well as fought and stood ready to negotiate a compromise solution. Many other peoples in the world have been in less happy positions than that. The Palestinians chose - and by "the Palestinians" I really mean those few in a position to chose anything, the Mufti and his allies - to go for all or nothing and stake their fortunes on war with the stated object of driving the Jews into the sea. They lost. Any feelings of guilt over the lot of the poor peasants who wound up in refugee camps dissipates when I consider what would have been the lot of the Jews, had they lost.