Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (35909)	11/30/2003 2:13:36 AM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 39621

Sidney - you may find this impossible to believe but every one of your objections are based upon your conclusions. They 'beg the question' Or to simplify - your understanding of the 1000 years is based upon your futurist presuppositions. A presupposition is something you presume before hand there for you "pre" "suppose" your objection.. Let me start with your first objection: undeniable fact that Jesus said that before the end can come the Gospel must be preached to every tribe and tongue and people. That has never been done until now, our time. This you state to be an "undenial fact" that it has not be fulfilled. You have a problem however making such a statement because the bible said had been accomplished. Paul, the inspired apostle of Christ, said it was fulfilled. You Sidney are the one denying irrefutable facts - not me. Jesus said this ( I presume this is what you refer to ) Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world {3625} for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. You are presuming a lot of meaning into the text that is not really there if you are open to honestly looking at it in context and comparing it to the rest of scripture. What does "then shall the END come" mean? Is it really the end of the world as many presume it to be? What is meant by 'world' - does it really mean the entire planet? What is meant by 'nations'? I once believed this verse taught what you obviously think it teaches. Why wouldn't I - most preachers preach that? First - what is meant by "world" in that verse? Is it the whole planet - or did it refer to the 'known world' If you look at maps that were made in those days all the nations consisted of those nations around the Mediterranean Sea. I would maintain that Christ was referring to the known world not Jamaica or Alaska. When we read scripture we cannot attach a 21st century meaning to the words. The words must be interpreted as they were intended. So - my understanding of the word 'world' comes from how it was used in that same time period by those same men. Look at what Paul said: Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.{3625} Paul said that their faith (those then living) was spoken of "throughout the WHOLE WORLD" Were they spoken of in Jamaica or Alaska? - No. Can you force a meaning into the words of Christ that could not be forced into the same words of Paul because of you theories? Look at the meaning of the word translated 'world' according to Strongs: 3625 oikoumenh oikoumene oy-kou-men’-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication of 1093); TDNT-5:157,674; n f AV-world 14, earth 1; 15 1) the inhabited earth 1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians 1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire 1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world 1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men 2) the universe, the world Strong's admits that it could mean only the Roman Empire. I am not forcing any meaning into the word - futurists do. "Kosmos" meaning the whole planet - this word is used in scripture quite often but not in the verse you were thinking of. Look: Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Here the bible teaches that the devil showed Christ - all the kingdoms of the world World is translated from the word "kosmos" from which we get the English version Cosmos. That word does mean the whole planet : 2889 kosmov kosmos kos’-mos probably from the base of 2865; TDNT-3:868,459; n m AV-world 186, adorning 1; 187 1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government 2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, ‘the heavenly hosts’, as the ornament of the heavens. #1Pe 3:3 3) the world, the universe 4) the circle of the earth, the earth 5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family 6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ 7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly 7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ 8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort 8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (#Ro 11:12 etc) 8b) of believers only, #John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 #1Co 4:9; 2Co 5:19 Futurist want Christ to have said the word Kosmos but not Oikoumene in Matthew 24 - read the context? Jesus said concerning these words that all would be fulfilled in that generation. Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. That included preaching the gospel to the whole world. However - Truth does not make room for what people Want to believe. You would be amazed at just how easily refuted are many things that one can be lead to believe are "irrefutable" when you take an honest look at them :-) I could go on - none of your strongholds will even hold water when you go back to the bible and look at them. I will not belabour you with a long post as I doubt you would take your own advise althought I thought it quite wise: RE>>go back to foundational truths of your salvation and build on that again after discarding what you have decided about eschatology.<< Perhaps you should be willing to follow your own advice Sidney after all, that is how I came to be where I am now. It is very very good advice. Brian