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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (35911)	11/30/2003 2:55:57 AM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 39621

Alan - long time no chat - I just finished a post and am off to bed.. I read the first few lines of your post and will respond quickly to your first question. RE>> And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is no more. The sea is no more? What does “sea” symbolize in scripture?<< The "SEA" refers to the Gentiles. In the Temple - there were divisions where only certain people could go. The "court of the Gentiles" was referred to as the "sea" while the main court where the Jews were allow was referred to as "the earth" and the Holy of Holies where only the High Priest entered once a year was where God Himself resided and was referred to as Heaven The holy of holies was "Heaven on Earth" However - this is difficult to glean strickly from scripture and some historical study can help. However - we can still see that the "sea" does refer to the gentiles in scripture because the term was not restricted to the temple references. The scriptures speaks of "the beast coming up out of the sea" that is to say from the gentiles instead of from within Israel. Israel as a nation "passed through the sea" both literally and figuratively as that nation had to pass through Egypt for 400 years :-) In those days there was no submarine equipment so it is plain that "the sea" refers to something symbolic - these armies were to come out of the 'sea ' the Gentile nations or as we would say today "the sea of humanity" Jeremiah makes reference to "the sea" within the city of Jerusalem where speaking of God destroying it in the first destruction. Jeremiah 27:19 For thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the pillars, and concerning the sea, and concerning the bases, and concerning the residue of the vessels that remain in this city, You can see that the components refer to the temple the "pillars and vessels" are not common pillars and vessels but those of the temple. The sea is also of the temple it is "IN" the city - not a body of water. So when you compare these historical evidences of the 'sea' referring to the court of the gentiles and the idea that the Gospel age - the new heavens and new earth age have no dividing wall between Jew and Gentile and that the veil has been torn down between them both and the holy of holies it is plain to understand that we have NO SEA. Mark 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; I know you know that in the Gospel age there is no difference between Jew or Gentile nor Male nor Female when it comes to entering into the holy of holies and the very presence of God. Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Our TEMPLE in this new heaven and earth era has no SEA We are all one in Him. Isaiah 24:14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea. That is what the SEA represented - In Christ the SEA has been done away with. I will read and answer your post later Off to bed. Brian

To: alan w who wrote (35911)	11/30/2003 3:17:38 AM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 39621

Another quick post: In Jeremiah 51 concerning the vengeance upon Babylon. It was other Gentile nations not Israel... Jer 51:42 The sea is come up upon Babylon: she is covered with the multitude of the waves thereof. 43 Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby. Covered with waves and yet a dry land :-) SEA = Gentile Armies Also: Ezekiel 26:16 Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee. SEA = Gentile Princes Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The beasts are four kingdoms and the sea is the Gentile world - not water. Brian

To: alan w who wrote (35911)	11/30/2003 6:25:53 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Good points alan. There are so many signs showing the end has not yet come.

To: alan w who wrote (35911)	11/30/2003 8:47:58 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 39621

Futurists must teach that biblical time statements are meaningless. There are too many verses that disallow a 2000 year period before Christ returns The verse you just quoted is the verse they ALWAYSuse to attempt this: 2 Peter 3:8 ¶ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The misuse of this verse is the hallmark of futurists What they claims is that it means when God says something is close - it could be far - or that when God says something is far - it could actually be close. Short can mean either short or long Quick can mean either quick or not quick Close may be far while far may be close - on and on. In other words - God's time statements become meaningless. {Actually they do not use it to mean far is close or long is quick - they only need it to may close, at hand, quickly etc mean NOT any of those things.} They use that verse to explain why their unbiblical theories do not need to stand up to the scrutiny of scripture or what Jesus actually said and revealed. The question becomes... Why does God inform us that things are close - if they indeed are not - OR - Why does God use time statements if they are virtually meaningless to us The bible is written to God's elect - it is meant to be understood. The fact that futurist teach that scripture is not meant to be understood is why futurism should be addressed - it makes Christianity the most intellectually dishonest school on earth. God uses time statements - they are not meaningless. Your use of this verse is out of context. You and all futurists are misusing 2 Peter 3:8 Let's rewrite some verses according to what you and others would have us think.... Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long OR VERY SHORT : and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision. Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. or months or years or centuries or split seconds Matthew 25:19 After a long time OR A FEW MOMENTS LATER the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. OR HE WILL TAKE HIS SWEET TIME Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: OR LONG AFTER YOU ARE DEAD hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Revelation 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: OR VERY SLOWLY blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. OR COMPLETELY OUT OF YOU REACH Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation OR SOME OTHER GENERATION shall not pass, OR MAY ACTUALLY PASS till all these things be fulfilled. OR NOT FULFILLED Because long could be short or quick could be slow or near could be far and even Jesus was clueless.... Alan - think about that - how can you believe such crap? Is God the liar and the devil true? According to this kind of wresting of scripture apparently so. Let God be true and every man a liar. It is time to take Jesus at His Word. Brian