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Politics : World Affairs Discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (2874)	12/1/2003 4:02:40 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 3959

Ray, you have posted here before and I welcome you to post here again Thanks, I was pretty amused when the closet Bushie decided I shouldn't play on the "moderate thread" any longer. :) How someone can pretend he is a moderate and at the same time support the radical restructuring of America that Bush is engineering is beyond my pay grade. ********* Re: So I am sure that you and all of us will remain very respectful of our troops. I really wish people would stop couching the argument in these terms. It isn't intellectual honest nor particularly descriptive of the reality on the ground. In the military we have several factions. The ones that I feel sympathy for are the grunts who got caught up in Operation Sitting Duck through no fault of their own. Just like the Iraqis, they are the victims of Bush's failed policy and Rumsfeld's astonishing arrogance. Then you have a second class of men at the tip of the spear. These are the sadists and the murder-for-hire crowd. They are a despicable breed of men who are not in the military to defend the principles of the U.S. legal system and our borders. They are in the military because they are mean son of a bitches who get their rocks off killing sand niggers and ragheads and anyone who doesn't look like the tow-headed Caucasian stock they are part of. These men deserve no respect. Among the officer class, you have the decent sort who actually did take on the career because of a sincere interest in patriotism and a sense of duty. These men are professionals and worthy of respect. But also among the officer class, you have the connivers, the right wing imperialists who see the military as the way to loot the planet and satisfy their greed. Again, this sort deserves no respect. So, when I hear people make a plea that we need to "support the troops", all I can think of is the wisdom of Hitler's propaganda minister who said: "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." The very best way to support the troops is to get them the hell out of Iraq. Now! *************** And I would hope that tsigprofit would reconsider the decision of banning you from this thread. A dastardly act that cutails the rights of people to speak out, IMO. BRAVO! BELLISIMO! QUE BELLA! Thanks. I really appreciate the use of the word "dastardly". <g> tsigprofit is full of himself. He reminds me of a little Napolean who sees the thread as his "fiefdom" that he's going to run to his own whimsical standards. He also reminds me of "Dudley DooRight", a doofus of a Canadian Mountie in the Bullwinkle cartoons that have been around since the 1950s. Gosh, I hope he doesn't read this thread. He'll bear a grudge against me forever if he does. He's just that sort of thin-skinned, shallow intellect Republican who respects loyalty above the truth or a good intellectual challenge. BTW, I sense from the resounding flop your post was at soliciting responses that I don't have a particularly large fan club at the "Moderate Forum". Oh well, c'est la guerre, n'est pas? Ciao!

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (2874)	12/1/2003 8:27:20 AM
From: lorne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3959

Chinu. Good news. Looks like even the democrats are at last beginning to understand. Lieberman Warns of Global Religious War November 30, 2003, 2:36 PM EST By Associated Press newsday.com WASHINGTON -- Iraq is the testing ground that will determine whether fanatical Muslims go to war against other religions, including moderate Islam, Democratic presidential candidate Joe Lieberman said Sunday. "There is no substitute for victory here. We must pull together across party lines, here in the United States, and we have to pull together with the rest of the world in a way that President Bush has not been able to accomplish yet," Lieberman said. Lieberman, considered the most centrist of the nine Democratic candidates, was an early and strong supporter of the invasion of Iraq, sponsoring the resolution that authorized it. He has accused Bush, however, of arrogance and unilateralism in failing to recruit stronger international backing. The world must be convinced, the Connecticut senator said, "that victory in the conflict we're in in Iraq now matters as much to them in the civilized world as it does to the United States of America." Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," he said: "This is a battle to stop al-Qaida, Saddam Hussein and every other enemy of freedom and modernity from turning the beginning of the 21st century into what is truly unbelievable, which would be a global religious war." "We can't let that happen, and this is where we're going to stop it." Asked whether such a global religious war would be "Islam versus Christianity and Judaism combined," Lieberman, an orthodox Jew, said, "Islam against -- fanatical Islam against Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, every other `ism,' every other religion, including every part of Islam that doesn't agree with these fanatics." "Iraq is the testing ground, and that's why we've got to make sure that victory is assured." Over the years, he said, Saudi Arabia and some other Muslim countries have been afraid to contest the extremists, Lieberman said. "This is a classic case: if you try to ride the back of this tiger, you're going to get swallowed," he said. Now, "I believe they're getting it, because they've been attacked now, two or three times this year, in a devastating way."