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Politics : Attack Iraq? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Cogito who wrote (8392)12/1/2003 6:49:06 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 8683
 
Allen. IMO every day we in democratic countries contribute to our own demise by being politically correct and giving in to religious demands or demands of special interest groups even if in the end it kills us.

The Difficuilties of dialogue with Islam.
1) During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: "Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to our religious laws we will dominate you."
Full article >>>
sspx.ca

I have been living in Turkey for the past 42 years, a 99.9% Muslim country, and I have been the Archbishop of Izmir - Asia Minor - for the past 16 years. The theme of my intervention is therefore obvious: the problem of Islam in Europe today and in the future. I thank Bishop Pelâtre, who already spoke about this theme in this prestigious assembly, dispensing me therefore of a long examination and relative interpretations.

My intervention is to make a humble request of the Holy Father, above all. To be brief and clear, first I will mention three cases that, due to their provenance, I believe to be true:

1) During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: "Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to our religious laws we will dominate you."

This is to be believed because the "domination" has already begun with the "petro-dollars" used not to create work in the poor North African or Middle Eastern countries, but to build mosques and cultural centers in Christian countries with Islamic immigrants, including Rome, the center of Christianity. How can we fail to see in all this a clear programme of expansion and reconquest?

2) During another Islamic-Christian meeting, always organized by Christians, a Christian participant publicly asked the Muslims present why they did not organize at least one meeting of this kind. The Muslim authority present answered in the following words: "Why should we? You have nothing to teach us and we have nothing to learn."

A dialogue between deaf persons? It is a fact that terms such as "dialogue," "justice," "reciprocity," or concepts such as "rights of man" and "democracy" have a completely different meaning for Muslims than for us.

But I believe that by now this is recognized and admitted by all.

3) In a Catholic monastery in Jerusalem there was-and perhaps still is-a Muslim Arab servant. A kind and honest person, he was respected greatly by the religious, who in turn were respected by him. One day, he sadly told them: "Our leaders have met and have decided that all the 'infidels' must be killed, but do not be afraid because I will kill you without making you suffer."

We are all aware that we must distinguish between the fanatic and violent minority from the tranquil and honest majority, but the latter, at an order given in the name of Allah or the Koran, will always march in unity and without hesitation. Anyway, history teaches us that determined minorities always manage to impose themselves on reluctant and silent majorities.

It would be naive to underestimate or, worse yet, smile at the three cases I have mentioned; I feel that their dramatic teaching must be considered seriously.

This is not pessimism on my part, despite the appearance. The Christian cannot be pessimistic because Christ is risen and alive; He is God, unlike any other prophet or one claiming to be such. The final victory will be Christ's, but God's times can be long, and often are. He is patient and waits for the conversion of sinners: in the meantime He invites the Church to organize herself and to work to hasten the coming of His kingdom. And now I would like to make a serious proposal to the Holy Father: to organize as soon as possible, if not a Synod, at least a symposium of Bishops and those engaged in the pastoral care of immigrants, particularly Islamic immigrants, and open to the Reformed and Orthodox Churches. Its organization could be entrusted to the CCEE [Consilium Conferentiarum Episcoporum Europae-Council Conference of European Bishops], which has had a great deal of experience in this matter, in collaboration with the KEK [Konferenz Europdischer Kirchen-Conference of European Churches].

The symposium could be useful to study in a collegial way the problem of the Islamic individuals in Christian countries, and thus find a common strategy to face it and resolve it in a Christian and objective way. We must agree on the principles, even if their application will vary depending on the places and the persons. Nothing is worse than disagreement on principles!

I end this exhortation suggested to me by experience: do not allow Muslims ever to use a Catholic church for their worship, because in their eyes this would be the surest proof of our apostasy.



To: Cogito who wrote (8392)12/2/2003 5:37:31 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 8683
 
Allen . Perhaps change is starting in the muslim world. No question that it is required and there also appears to be a lot more muslims starting to speak out.

U.S. Liberal Arabic Website Rebuttal to Mahathir's Speech
December 2, 2003 No.618
memri.org

In response to former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Muhammad's address at the Islamic Summit Conference on October 16, 2003, Bassam Darwish, editor of the U.S.-based liberal Arabic site annaqed.com, wrote an article, titled "A Complex Waiting to be Solved." [1] The article was a rebuttal to Mahathir Muhammad's speech in which he claimed that Jews control the world and encouraged Muslims to unite to achieve a "final victory." The following are excerpts from the article:

Mahathir's Speech Encouraged Ignorance Among Muslims
"'Despite its relatively small size, the Jewish society has become a force, and we [the Muslims] cannot fight it only by means of force [but must] fight it also by means of our wits… We need today cannons, missiles, bombs, fighter planes, tanks, and destroyers in order to protect ourselves…'

"These are some of the words included in the speech of [former] Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Muhammad at the opening of the conference of the Organization of Islamic Countries, which demanded of Muslims 'to use their wits' and urged them 'to adopt science and education as means' in the war against the Jews – whom he described as 'ruling the world.' The leaders of the Muslim countries who were present at the conference all stood up and roundly applauded the speech.

"Certainly, none disagree with Mahathir's call 'to adopt science and education,' and no one in the free and civilized world longs to see one-fifth of mankind rotting in the darkness of ignorance – as their ignorance causes more damage to the world than it does to them. The problem is that this statement came from a man who does not understand the meaning of science… When a Muslim leader… encourages the Muslims to adopt science for only one purpose – in order to be better and stronger than the Jews, Christians, Buddhists, and others, and in order to be able to annihilate the Jews – he is actually not urging Muslims to cling to science but to cling to ignorance itself, and to a mad dash backwards…

"When Louis Pasteur consumed his days and nights with searching for a cure for rabies, the goal before him was man, whoever he may be, and not proof that he was better than the Jews or the Muslims. This is true for every Western scientist, whether he be a Christian or a Jew, and there is no doubt that it is also true for every Muslim scientist. When Ibn Sina wrote his medical books… he did not state that their goal was to achieve superiority over the Jews, Christians, or Hindus… and when the heads of universities in the West speak before students, they reiterate to them that they [i.e. the students] are about to obtain for themselves higher scientific education so as to take part in building a better world – and not that the purpose of their scientific studies is to achieve superiority over the Muslims and other people."

Muslims' 'Jewish Complex' Began With Islam
"The Arab Muslims are not the only ones suffering from a 'Jewish complex'… Even a Muslim living on the most remote island suffers from this complex, which appeared not because of the founding of the Zionist movement or the establishment of the State of Israel, but with the creation of Islam itself.

"For the sake of balance, we must point out that even in the West they suffered from this disease, but with one difference: the roots of the disease among Westerners are [not] religious, [but] man-made, while the roots of the disease among the Muslims were and remain religious and made by Allah. Therefore, it is no wonder that it was easier for the Westerners to rid themselves of their disease, while among the Muslims the disease became malignant, and can only be gotten rid of by a divine instruction that will 'abrogate' Allah's previous instruction…

"'The Jews control the world' is the chorus of all those who cannot swim with the flow [and cannot use their minds like] the Jews use their minds. The Jews never controlled the world. They survived in this world despite their small number, and despite the persecution that they suffered throughout history. They were merchants, scientists, physicians, lawyers, and wealthy men, as well as ordinary people who worked hard for their bread and their existence. They helped each other, lived a communal life, and united [as a society] not with the goal of taking over and controlling the world but in order to continue to exist in it as a minority, against the majority that never stopped attempting to destroy them.

"Had this basis of the Jewish existence developed to the point of ruling the world… they would have deserved it by rights, because they did not consume their days and nights with consulting over questions [such as] whether it is legitimate for a Muslim or a Christian to greet them first, or whether it is permitted for a Muslim to wish the Christian well on the occasion of his holiday. [Instead], the Jews devoted themselves to learning and working, and in this way preserved and based their existence.

"Mahathir Muhammad urged the Muslims of our time 'to cling to science' in order to produce cannons, missiles, bombs, fighter planes, tanks, and destroyers to defend themselves – but to defend themselves from whom? From a mere 14,000,000 [Jews] who managed, throughout history and by their wits alone, to protect themselves from persecution and annihilation?!

"The Muslims do not need missiles, tanks, and cannons to rid themselves of their 'Jewish complex.' This complex will be resolved when the Muslims try to see the world through non-religious glasses. The Muslims' belief that the entire world is a single front against Islam is correct… and how can it not be correct, if the Muslims [themselves] see the world strictly through religion?"

The Muslims are Responsible for Creating A Cultural Separation Fence
"Everywhere in the world, and in Israel as well, people, politicians, and Christian and Jewish clerics go to demonstrations and declare their solidarity with the Palestinians and the Arabs. And what, in contrast, is happening on the Arab and Islamic side? It is not the Israelis who elected Sharon as Israeli prime minister but the Arabs and Muslims. It is not the Israelis who are working to build the separation fence, but the Arabs and Muslims.

"When we hear of spontaneous marches in the streets of the Arab and Muslim countries condemning the suicide and terror operations aimed at innocent people in Israel and other places, and demands for trials for those who encourage them – then the fence will fall without using a single axe.

"When we hear of an Arab leader standing and delivering a speech fervently before his people, saying that the time has come to reach out to the Israelis and cooperate with them in order to create a just peace in the region for us and for them, then Sharon will retire and open a coffee shop in Tel Aviv.

"When we hear of an imam in a mosque giving a sermon to the worshippers and saying to them that the most supreme form of worship is for them to go out and shake the hands of their Jewish and Christian neighbors, or bear in their hands olive branches and throw them [at their neighbors] rather than stones – then the separation fence will fall by itself and the Israelis will beat their tanks into plowshares for building both Israel and Palestine. "Then the memory of Mahathir Muhammad and his ilk will fade into the dustbin of history."