Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (18648)	12/4/2003 9:14:45 PM
From: frankw1900	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793600

Um. well, I don't have the time to savage this piece to the degree it deserves. And this distinction between Church and State has survived the Reformation to become one of the most prized elements of Western Civilization. Or at least it has in those countries in which some Protestant sect or other hadn't captured the apparatus of government: it must never be forgotten that it was Calvin, and not some Medieval Catholic, who founded in Geneva the world's first Christian totalitarian state, that it is Lutheran bishops who were traditionally the paid employees of German and Scandinavian governments, and that it is the Church of England, and not the Church of Rome, whose head is a secular monarch The separation of church and state he claims is due to the virtue of the RC church defending itself from and separating itself from earthly power. And which of these states he mentions is not today a liberal democracy with remarkable separation of religion and state? With regard to the conclusion Islam needs a Pope not a reformation: I think that is exactly what Osama wants to be, an Islamist Pope, an earthly Pope, in the image of Mohammed. Islam needs neither a Pope nor a Reformation. It needs an Enlightenment and Modernity. Not surprisingly, non-fundamentalist Muslim scholars, both Shiite and Sunni, say this. Western history is unique. The History of Catholicism and Protestantism, Reformation and Counter-Reformation should not be imposed on the History of Islam. What counts for real is the description today. Islamic culture has come up against Modernity (again) and has to deal with it. So far, it has dealt with it badly - that was the essential point of that confused speech by the Malaysian PM - if we measure 'badly' in terms of justice and prosperity in certain Muslim countries. The overwhelming characteristic in these societies is caprice and poverty and it grows from traditions (which this author values so greatly). Specifically it grows from traditions of honour culture generated by the emotional economics of shame, traditions of conquest and absolute rule, and traditions of tribalism, all energized further by imports of Western anti-modern ideology such as fascism and marxism, and a great ton of oil money, and, of course, a religion deriving from a prescriptive text which, necessarily, because time passes requires creative interpretation. There are other traditions within Islamic cultures but for the last hundred years or so, and particularly the last thirty years, they have been swamped by ideology deriving from literalist interpretation of Islamic scripture propagated by ruthless men well financed by Iran and Saudi Arabia. The practical question modern folk can address is, how can we help Muslims escape this disaster and move to their version of the Enlightenment? Some things which can be done: Remove the islamist missionaries from our territory. Kill or otherwise defeat their terrorist accomplices. Take away their money. Make it possible for some Muslims to create a successful modern state other Muslims would want to live in.