To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (42744 ) 12/8/2003 6:06:28 AM From: Raymond Duray Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 74559 In 1936, Winston Churchill quipped that Clement Atlee was "a sheep in sheep's clothing". In 1936, most of Britain's aristocracy and a huge slice of the American capitalist class were perfectly happy to endorse and do business with Adolph Hitler. Men like George Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush and industrialist Henry Ford were both huge fans of Hitler, and would never think of describing this German hero as a fascist. By 1938, UK Prime Minister Chamberlain was ceding Czechoslovakia to Hitler in an appeasement that met with general approval by the media in the U.S. and the UK. Churchill, nearly alone, stood against the forces of militarism that he saw raising their ugly heads in Nazi Germany. Yet most were complaisant. Just as you are complaisant today, because you look at America and see that it hasn't changed drastically from what it was 3 years ago. And I look at the planning documents being produced by the men who have stolen our national government and I rail against their vision of the future. Not against the reality you see on the street. The difference is that I'm aware of what is being planned. You seem to be aware of what is, but not what hasn't been revealed to you about the future. Therein lies the all the difference. The natural state of a democracy is not blind patriotism, it is deep and abiding suspicion of governments. Had the UK and the U.S. acted on Churchill's briliant suspicions in 1936, the course of history would have been undoubtedly been much less bloody. **** Re: Why do you think the US has habeas corpus? Certainly not because George Bush thinks it is a good idea. :) We have habeus corpus rights because of the thousand year history of government abuse of citizens in England prior to the creation of our U.S. Constitution. From the earliest times, lords abused their power to incarcerate their enemies, debtors and others whom they deemed to be undesirables. The first codification of habeus corpus rights that I'm aware of in the English law is the Magna Carta, signed by King John in 1215, and violated by him within a few months. cs.indiana.edu From that inauspicious beginning habeus corpus was both codified and a part of English Common Law, being frequently violated by such nasty things as the Star Chamber proceedings and other efforts at tyranny of governments over their subjects. The version that we have in our Constitution is a direct descendent of English Common Law and philosophical treatises by John Locke and other Enlightenment savants of the period.