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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (19979)	12/15/2003 7:46:30 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793731

Rantingprofs Critiques of media coverage of the War on Terror, and the politics surrounding it. THE NARRATIVE BEGINS TO GEL I wrote yesterday that the game now was going to be a debate over the criteria used to evaluate the capture (or, what Will Saletan described as "moving the goal posts.") Today, on Today, interviewing General Sanchez, Katie Couric asks, "militarily, how much of the enemy's capabilities have been degraded by this capture?" Sanchez answers by talking about the importance of having the ideological and symbolic leader taken off the battlefield. To which she instantly grabs on: "So this is more symbolic" than concrete? And it's off to the races. rantingprofs.typepad.com

To: LindyBill who wrote (19979)	12/15/2003 7:51:36 AM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793731

Check out these Democrat Underground comments... rightwingnews.com The Democratic Underground's Reaction To Saddam's Capture Unfortunately, the Democratic Underground's moderators have been deleting some of the crazier and/or more offensive posts on the DU of late. Of course, that makes perfect sense given that so many people on the right have been pointing out what a bunch of whack jobs they are. But don't worry, I was still able to pull a few gold plated cashews out of the DU nut mine for your amusement. Magic Rat: "well...I guess I'm "supposed" to feel good about (Saddam being captured) Because he is a "brutal dictator" who "killed thousands of his own people." But he was also a guy who posed no threat to us. And a guy who managed to keep a hostile area of the world relatively sedate (albeith through brutal tactics). And a guy who was a secular muslim leader instead of a hardcore fundamentalist. But I think in cold, crass political terms. I think it's good for Bush so I think it's bad for me. So I'm not happy, and I don't care if it's politically incorrect to say so." joeybee12: "My gut reaction was "Sh*t"--good news for Dumbo And speaking of politically incorrect, I'm glad it happened now instead of next October!" neebob: "My reaction I am: (1) surprised Saddam is still alive, (2) ashamed that the U.S. supported him for years, (3) sad about all the death and destruction, (4) sickened by the hypocrisy and lies, (5) angry at the stupidity of what I'm hearing on TV right now the people who are sucking it up, and (6) disgusted at the prospect of the trial and how it will be used. In sum, I hate George Bush more than I hated him yesterday. FXDS: "I agree with another poster. I think they have had Saddam locked up for several months. The capture of Osama will also be front page news around October 2004! There is nothing that this bunch of thugs won't do to hold on to power!" bushwentawol: "The capture of Saddam is all fine and good, but does how does this help someone facing a bleak Christmas because they lost their job? How does this help someone with an illness who just lost their insurance coverage? How does this help someone who's underemployed, working several jobs and struggling to pay the mortgage? It just don't make me any money." JailBush: "Saddam Hussein vs Osama bin Laden vs George W. Bush Don't forget the amazing similarities and differences between the world's three most notorious terrorists. George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden are both religious fanatics; Osama reputedly hates Hussein because he is not particularly religious. George Bush and Saddam Hussein are widely hated at home, and there are many Iraqis and Americans who would gladly turn them in. In contract, Osama bin Laden is widely revered as a hero. I saw some talking head on TV just a few minutes ago who insisted that no one will ever turn in Osama bin Laden - even for a million-dollar reward. It's a matter of honor. Osama bin Laden speaks Arabic and English. I believe Saddam Hussein speaks English, too; I could be mistaken. George W. Bush hasn't even mastered English. Osama bin Laden and George H.W. Bush are both very close to the bin Laden family. Saddam Hussein and George W. Bush both appreciate torture; I'm not sure about Osama. I doubt that Osama bin Laden cares much about the environment, but Saddam Hussein ravaged Iraq's famous swamps. George Bush's anti-environmental policies are even more destructive. George W. Bush is by far the biggest coward of the three. No matter how much they hate them, no intelligent person would declare Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden cowards. Osama bin Laden fights for a cause. George Bush and Saddam Hussein wage war to keep themselves in power. Bush also profits from war. Osama and Bush were born into wealthy families; I'm not sure about Saddam. George W. Bush is by far the greater menace to the United States and the world at large. Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden are both former U.S. allies. George Bush has never been an ally. Who was involved with the Attack on America? Saddam Hussein almost certainly wasn't, but Osama bin laden and George W. Bush are both key suspects. George Bush and Osama bin Laden are both very secretive, spending much of their time in hiding. The same is probably generally true for Saddam Hussein." They don't seem very happy that Saddam got caught, do they? John Hawkins \| 02:37 AM \| Comments (5) \| Link Cosmos \| TrackBack (0) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Favorite Sunday Reactions To Saddam's Capture From The Left-Side Of The Blogosphere I took a look at a number of prominent left-wing blogs so I could see what they were saying about Saddam's Capture. Although there were a couple of exceptions, the majority of left-wing blogs I took a look at either didn't mention it all or either tried to play it off as no big deal. I guess that's what you have to do when your party regularly puts itself into a position where good news for America means bad news for Democrats. But here were my three favorite reactions... In third place, the anti-Glenn Reynolds, Atrios, whinges about moral clarity... "These are just some unorganized idle thoughts before I've had a cup of coffee. Capturing Saddam is a good thing - he was a bad guy. I'm really glad he was captured and not killed. "But, it really doesn't change much. Capturing Saddam isn't going to end the resistance to the US occupation in Iraq. It may improve things slightly, or it could even make it worse, but the net effect will probably be negligible. Saddam was a bad guy, but it isn't clear he's any worse of a guy than some of the folks who are a part of our "Coalition of the Willing," so this pretense of moral clarity, etc... is ridiculous." -- Eschaton In second place, there's TBOGG who thinks we're losing in Iraq while exploiting the Iraqi people... "I hate to join the "Coalition of the Pissy" (Glen's got a new catch-phrase! All the cool kids will be using it......"Educational quagmire! Educational quagmire!") but just because we caught bad guy Saddam Hussein doesn't mean that the unprovoked invasion was right the right thing to do nor is the occupation. What's going on now among the Fighting Keyboarders is equivalent of a defensive end celebrating a sack when his team is down by thirty points in the 4th quarter. Is Iraq better off now than it was before? At the moment, yes. Will it be better off after the US Corporations finish acquiring all the Iraqi assets and have their own little colonial empire to bleed dry under the protection of a puppet military and private "security forces"? Nope. History and time don't stop with this moment, much as the warbloggers would like to believe. The exploitation of the Iraqi people is over. Let the new exploitation begin..." -- TBOGG Then last but not least, in first place, there's Phillip Shropshire from Warblogger Watch who says terrorists have the right to attack US troops. Welcome to the anti-war left's moral equivalence sewer Phillip! Ted Rall is down there somewhere with you, just follow your nose... "SADDAM HUSSEIN CAPTURED. First, good riddance. I have nothing but contempt for corrupt American puppets. I hope he gets a trial where he can talk at length about his relationship with the United States. He'll probably get a trip to Gitmo. Remember: The Bush admininstration only rarely doesn't do the most evilest worstest thing imaginable. Like Tariq, I also think that his capture actually helps the resistance. Now, you can't say it's some insidious Baathist plot hatched by Saddam in his underground lair. I would hope that now your usual crew of jingoist, objectively pro imperialism, pro communist (a big faction of the coalition government's coalition) Sullys and Instapundits could define the resistance as being home grown. Subsequently, we should address their valid concerns. Give them a vote if they ask for a vote. Give them control of their oil revenues. That's what decent people and countries do. Don't fantasize and call people with legitimate concerns evil doers or "terrorists". We're a country that used force to get what we want. The "terrorists" have the same right. There is no high ground here." -- Warblogger Watch

To: LindyBill who wrote (19979)	12/15/2003 9:55:43 AM
From: Little Joe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793731

"His administration was recklessly negligent in its planning for the post-invasion period." This quote from your post from the Nation prompts me to make this observation. Would any country go to war if as a prequisite they were required to accurately plan every aspect of it including the aftermath. It is one of the absurd notions of this war that somehow we failed because it has not gone perfectly and we did not "plan" for every possibility. I suppose those folks who make such naive and stupid statements think the U.S. employs psycics. Madam "I know the future, just dial 1-900 whatever. In fact the war was an enormous success and the aftermath is being well managed. Little joe