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Strategies & Market Trends : VOLTAIRE'S PORCH-MODERATED -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: abstract who wrote (60090)	12/20/2003 12:44:50 PM
From: Jill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 65232

I basically agree with you. Why did they go into Iraq? First of all, Bush Sr. didn't finish the job, mostly because of international pressure. He caved and who can say in retrospect if it was a good idea. So people like Cheney or Rumsfeld wanted to "finish the job." They were raring to go. Secondly, a lot of Bush et al's buddies made a lot of $ on defense contracts, and Halliburton et al are also getting the same (lots of $). Desire for oil was a big factor. So let's just say, special interests played a big role. Greed. A once ain a lifetime chance, boys, let's take it! Yeah! I think we crossed a line here that we never had before and I don't know how the consequences will shake out over the next decades. It'll take that long to know. The line was: a first strike war without provocation. I'm not talking Afghanistan here, we can consider the terrorist bombing of the WTC provocation, I'll agree with that. I'm talking Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction. A government ought to know what is solid intelligence and what is not. If we want to give them the benefit of the doubt, the above two reasons I mentioned created such greed/desire that they were willing to believe their own rhetoric based on slim evidence. That is, people lie to themselves and don't realize it. Perhaps that was true but I'm more skeptical than that. I think they're far smarter than that. We are too little cognizant of what the rest of the world thinks. They bear grudges for how we've handled this. Those grudges will have a long memory. They may be visited upon us years or decades from now. Not to mention that in spite of the nicely rebounding economy, we have a horrific deficit, when we started out with a surplus. I don't like that our surplus, which could've helped our own people--for instance, 75 million Americans have no health insurance, and many others are struggling with health insurance that is not adequate--has now gone into this enormous debt that will take so long to recover from--all to conquer and rebuild a country that was none of our business really, and no immediate or foreseeable threat to us. I'm more worried that medications are so expensive, that college costs $40,000 a year, that lots of people are still out of jobs. I'd like to have seen our surplus put into our own quality of life at home. The balance of power is shifting in the world, slowly and inexorably. China has 800 million we have 300 million. We're outsourcing to them and their economy is growing like crazy. We can't stop outsourcing as it makes us competitive in this global economy. I believe eventually that will build such economic strength on their part, that someday we will no longer be the superpower. It could be at such a time, which is quite a ways off, that some of our actions may come back to bite us in the behind. I say this from the perspective of someone who qualifies herself as middle of the road with a slight leaning to the left. Apparently that is actually a constituency, as I saw it listed on a website the other day and thought, thats me. I categorize myself as independent because I won't affiliate with either party, so I don't vote in primaries, only elections. I vote democratic more than I do republican but not exclusively. Anyway, on another note, a nice little article: biz.yahoo.com

To: abstract who wrote (60090)	12/20/2003 3:38:16 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 65232

RE: #1 - I can understand. When people who have ideological principles similar to yours are being rightfully maligned for their outrageous behavior, it's hard to take & even harder to accept. Add to it that most media outlets are also close to your ideological principles. They too have turned a deaf ear to most of the reality of the actions from the left. In fact they have in fact help propagate the problems themselves. That makes it much easier to cling to one's disbelief. It doesn't change the facts or the reality of the situation. My response & the accompanying links irrefutably establish this with cold, hard facts. RE: #2 - Those links I provided directly responded to & more than adequately rebuffed many of your concerns factually & accurately. They clearly establish that most of what you believe to be true about the Bush Administration's alleged lies, their failure to effectively communicate, etc., is bunk. And keep in mind that your opinions about this situation are clearly the minority opinion in the USA based on a wide variety of polls. That is a fact. Most folks get it, even after wading through the liberal media's clear bias & complicity in the whole situation. It is a vocal minority that clings to the distorted reality that your peers express with such vitriol. RE: #3 - Most journalists are dyed in the wool liberals. That's indisputable. Not only are a vast majority of them registered democrat, their voting patterns are also consistently for democrats. Most media outlets have a clear liberal bias. Again it is well known & well documented....... (more relevant links below) Be dismissive if you wish. One of the main reasons I lean more to the right these days has to do with the lack of morals & ethics practiced by the left in recent years & the obvious complicity of the painfully obviously liberal media. I simply do not wish to be associated with them any longer. When most of the serious allegations leveled at the Bush Administration are found to be based on lies, distortions & deceit propagated by liberal politicians & widely disseminated by certain liberal media outlets, I find myself being pushed further & further away from anything the left has to say. I just can't stand unrepentant liars. I have even more antipathy toward those who lie & deceive for personal or political gain. Add to it that the left has allowed national security to be risked while they falsely attacked the Bush Administration & that their actions have placed out troops around the globe to be in even greater peril, my distaste for their words & deeds is quite palpable. RE: #4 - There is a larger chasm between what really is going on with the Bush Administration & what gets reported to folks in the USA & for that matter globally. If you had read the articles I provided, you would have a mountain of factual evidence at your disposal to learn this sad reality....... (more relevant links below) RE: #5 - What do alleged wrongdoings from previous administrations have to do with the proper actions taken by the Bush Administration? RE: #6 - I have no idea what you are alleging. The USA may not be perfect in regard to human rights issues, but to allege hypocrisy when Saddam & numerous other countries have little or no concern about human rights is laughable. RE: #7 - I agree with the first half of your belief. We have made it clear to the world we are serious about this war on terror & rouge regimes that have WMD programs & who harbor, finance, train or otherwise assist terrorist organizations. RE: #8 - Perhaps. RE: #9 - So are many of the people who face the death penalty. Their utter lack of concern for other human beings put them squarely in position to face the ultimate sentence. RE: #10 - Well, the Bush Administration did consider the opinions of others & received overwhelming support from Congress & unanimous support from the UN. When it became clear that the US & a coalition of what is now 61 countries was going to take action in the war on terror & rouge regimes was when the Axis of Weasels spoke out. One may want to look at why though. Had you read the links I provided yesterday, you would know that France, Germany, Russia, China, N Korea & other countries may have been quite complicit in propping up Saddam & been involved in many illegal contracts with him. That includes selling illegal arms, etc. Lots of skeletons in their closets. Your analogy about arguing with one's wife is not comparable to the situation with the US, the UK, Spain, & Australia, ET AL & the Axis of Weasels. It's not about "winning, winning, winning, without regard to where that leaves the relationship", nor a "losing proposition". It's about the global war on terror, no more, no less....... (more relevant links below) RE: #11 - Fantastic! I strongly suggest you give serious consideration to every article I linked. The evidence is simply overwhelming. Have a great weekend! Why are newspapers so liberal in labeling "conservatives"? Message 19509109 Media Bias Basics Message 19526562 35 + 11 articles with a plethora of factual evidence of obvious liberal media bias.... siliconinvestor.com siliconinvestor.com Once again, Democrats, to divert the public's attention from their persistent obstruction in the war on terrorism, are falsely accusing Republicans of challenging their patriotism. Message 19549075 GOP Slams Dems for Politicizing Iraq Intel Message 19469980 Transcript of a memo written by a Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee staff suggesting how to make the greatest gain off of intelligence data leading to the war against Iraq. Message 19473816 Sen. Zell Miller, Georgia Democrat, said yesterday that the memo comes close to a treasonous act against the United States. "If this is not treasonous, it's the first cousin of treason," Message 19474149 Leaked memos show that Senate Democrats have turned the Senate Intelligence Committee into a tool of political weaponry, and left-wing special interest groups have hijacked the confirmation of federal judges. Message 19600365 Memo-gate Shows New Tone Has Not Come to Washington Message 19600400 Democratic strategy of using the investigation of prewar intelligence on Iraq against the Bush administration Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Message 19486495 Political terrorism siliconinvestor.com The reason the mainstream media is downplaying the Democratic Senate Intelligence Committee memo is because it implicates mainstream journalists. Message 19498771 What Memo? Message 19498771 Memo splits Intelligence Committee Message 19512734 America is at war..... The leadership of the Democratic Party is also at war. Message 19515921 If what has happened here is not treason, it is its first cousin. Message 19515940 A Panel Above Politics Message 19515988 The Media and the Memo Message 19515996 Media Bias and Arrogance – A Tale of Two Scandals Message 19516013 POLITICIZING THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE Message 19516039 Leaked memo sparks cries of news media bias Message 19600325 Strategy memo 'poisons' panel Message 19486495 Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee have worked in close concert with outside special-interest groups to defeat President Bush's judicial nominees, according to internal Democratic staff memos. Message 19508233 How Ted cemented filibuster Message 19516566 Affirmative-action case rigged? Memos urge Sen. Kennedy to slow judicial confirmation to affect ruling Message 19520883 Due process denied Message 19534241 Democratic memos expose the media’s double standard Message 19540111 The Sound of Silence Why is the press ignoring what the Democratic Judiciary memos say? Message 19553431 Debate Swells Over Leaked Memos Message 19588436 Axis of Weasels - The UN Message 19604280 The UN Security Council, the functional core of the UN, was designed to create a permanent state of deadlock. Message 19612696 Iraq's interim foreign minister, Hoshyar Zebari, had a thing or two to tell the U.N. Security Council: Message 19615887 Ethnic cleansing, smuggling rampant under UN's aegis - Four years after it was "liberated" by a NATO bombing campaign, Kosovo has deteriorated into a hotbed of organized crime, anti-Serb violence and al-Qaeda sympathizers, say security officials and Balkan experts. Message 19584432