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Politics : WHO IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004 -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: stockman_scott who wrote (8016)	12/24/2003 3:55:30 PM
From: microhoogle!	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 10965

Dean Leads in Oklahoma and Arizona! The latest polls from American Research Group show Dean pulling ahead in Oklahoma and strengthening his lead in Arizona-- both of which are critical February 3rd primary states. The Oklahoma results: Howard Dean 24% Wesley Clark 21% Joe Lieberman 9% Dick Gephardt 4% John Edwards 3% John Kerry 2% Carol Moseley Braun 1% Dennis Kucinich 1% Al Sharpton 1% And the Arizona results: Howard Dean 26% Wesley Clark 15% Joe Lieberman 9% Dick Gephardt 7% John Kerry 6% Dennis Kucinich 1% John Edwards 1%

To: stockman_scott who wrote (8016)	12/27/2003 11:57:02 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 10965

Scott, We may have found someone with an interest in discussing Clark's candidacy. Here's what I've just received on another board that I thought might be of interest to you: <COPY> Message #45407 from Hawkmoon at Dec 27, 2003 11:39 AM Character assassination? No better target for that this year than the creep behind the President, Karl Rove. So which "evil" and mean-spirited individual do you suspect is behind the attacks against Donald Rumsfeld for having met Saddam Hussein in 1984 as a private envoy on behalf of the Reagan administration? Btw, had a lovely chat with a Clark campaign worker last night.. It's becoming apparent that some of them are recognizing that, barring a Dean political meltdown, Clark will not win the nomination. He certainly would have presented a more formidable opponent to Bush than Dean. However, there's always the possibility of a Clark VP-ship, which many feel might have recently been derailed by Clark's "slip of the tongue".. But Dean knows he needs someone with military and international experience to flesh out his campaign.. But one would think he'd need John Kerry's legitimacy and experience in the Senate in order to get his legislation through that body.. Clark adds nothing in that regard. But as the previous articles indicate, he's quite vulnerable to "dirty tricks".. As he is with regard to his being relieved of duty by Hugh Shelton. He's the only NATO commander to have suffered such a fate, and that's very telling about some of his character traits. Because that decision was not made solely by Shelton.. It would have involved ALL of the Chiefs from the various services, as well as the SecDef. Hawk ****** My reply would be that I haven't gotten to the bottom of things w/r/t how General Clark managed to so royally roil the feathers of the Sheltons of this world. My impression was that the main problem was that Clark is able and willing to think for himself, and that that was anathema to a guy like Shelton. I think rather than a black mark against Clark, I see a black mark against Shelton, the JCS and Cohen as being rigidly reactionary and robustly recalcitrant about fresh ideas. The brasshats appear to have suffered from the typical hubris and arrogance of those who achieve such vaunted status and become unwilling to accept good to great ideas from outside the standard chain of command because "they weren't invented here!"