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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (79971)	12/30/2003 5:10:35 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"X's position wasn't anything to do with selfishness. She merely thought that a gang of bullies was worse than a single bully, if I understood her correctly." She got caught several times over the course of that episode with disingenuous comments. So much so, that she went on a tangent to declare how it didn't matter, since her persona isn't 'real.' She's doing that dance again today...nobody knows whats behind her comments, motives, thoughts blah blah blah... great for deniability but... Now she is claiming the moral high ground... Oh yeah, we were talking about spouting ethics without being ethical weren't we. I am sure you did understand her correctly.

To: Lane3 who wrote (79971)	12/30/2003 5:22:50 PM
From: Solon	Respond to of 82486

"X's position wasn't anything to do with selfishness" I answered her line for line. Where I affirmed her selfishness was simply where she had made a point of insisting upon it. I believe that all people are selfish and that selfishness is the basis of all charity and good works so I am sure that X would appreciate that. But in any event, I simply paraphrased what she said. You can yak about it with her if you wish. "Sadly you never understood then, and you do not understand now, that what I did I did for me, and not to help Chris, whom I have no investment in" "She merely thought that a gang of bullies was worse than a single bully" We all think that, don't we? I hardly think that is the difference in and of itself. DO YOU?? "let's not run amok here" I won't. You know things about X that I don't know. And I know things about X that you don't know. There is a Hell of a lot more to the X files than anybody wants to say publicly. You might want to e-mail E, Poet, or some others... Do you really think that X is that superior to others in assessing bullies? Is that what you think all this is about?!

To: Lane3 who wrote (79971)	12/30/2003 6:45:52 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 82486

You understood correctly. But there is no point in going into it more deeply than that. Some people don't get it, and never will. I don't care if they don't agree, but not even getting the concept is just too pathetic to deal with.

To: Lane3 who wrote (79971)	12/30/2003 8:34:59 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I thought about what you said here, and as a disciple of Ayn you ought to be ashamed. ALL morals and principles which we live by are ultimately selfish (I think), because by hewing to them we shape the world into what we would like it to be, and discourage that which we find obnoxious, or dangerous, or ugly. There is virtue in selfishness, but we may argue forever on what virtues of selfishness lead to the best world. You and I, for example, would never agree on the virtues in the selfishness of promoting children's health via the government. I want to do that, because I selfishly wish children to be healthier, so that my children will grow up in a better world. Presumably you disagree with that because you selfishly have your own ideas about how doing what I want to do would lead to a less agreeable world, and so on. So, I submit that all of us, and all our actions are selfish- it's one of the things I think Ayn got right, and it fits in neatly with biology, which too, is "selfish". It doesn't solve any arguments to say that we're all selfish, but it makes calling someone selfish remarkably silly, imo, of course.