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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (36239)	1/8/2004 12:17:57 AM
From: Jamey	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

IGIT, If you are indeed interested in Preterism then I would recommend one book that helped me to understand and see the whole picture was R.C. Sproul's "The Last Days According To Jesus",When did Jesus say He would return? Dr. Sproul does not try to convince you of anything but I came away after reading it believing that truly Jesus predicted the "End of the Age" and the destruction of Jerusalem actually happened in 70AD. It is now generally accepted that the four Gospels were written before 70AD and the fundamental belief of Preterism is that in the Olivet Discourse Jesus was specifically pointing to the end of the Jewish economy and the ushering in of the Age of The Gentiles and the Church age. We do not believe that the End of the Age was the destruction of the world. Sproul does admit that he believes that there was a coming of Christ and that Christians denying that fact more or less sets up a reason for Atheists to say that Jesus was mistaken because he plainly says this in many verses yet Christians say it never happened. As a full Preterist, I believe that end times prophesy is like one long string. Once it begins there is no 2000 year + interruption in prophesy. Once you follow this thread throughout the Bible it becomes clear, without bending and twisting Scripture that this is the only reasonable position to take considering everything Jesus and the Apostles said in regard to the end of the age. James

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (36239)	1/8/2004 12:30:30 AM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 39621

IGIT; In the King James Version of the bible they used a word Us-ward I do not know if it was a common word on the street or if they invented it to cover the meaning in Greek but it appeared only 2 times in the New Testament in the New Testament. Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. not willing that any should perish refers to Us-ward. Here are some other translations of that same verse they all verify that the subject of the verse is the predestined ones. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord does not delay his promise, as some account of delay, but is longsuffering towards you, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance, 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is, not slack, concerning his promise, as some count, slackness; but is long-suffering with regard to you, not being minded that any should perish, but that, all, unto repentance, should come. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slow in fulfilling His promise, in the sense in which some men speak of slowness. But He bears patiently with you, His desire being that no one should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 ¶ the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation, Some versions make it easier to see what the topic of while others do not. God is not being "longsuffering" to all men in regard to not perishing as many will. The bible does teach however that God does indure the vessels prepared for wrath rather than mercy for the elects sake. Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: That verse teaches that God "endures" and "suffers" the wicked not because He is hoping they will be saved but because He is "willing to make His wrath (anger) known. That is quite a different kind of "longsuffering" Brian

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (36239)	1/8/2004 9:15:12 AM
From: Robert E. Hall	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Good morning IGIT, I'll post your questions IGIT, and then respond to them individually; <<< Do you believe in salvation by predestination alone ? >>> Absolutely, Before creation the Bible says that God chose all those that would belong to Him throughout the ages. It is because of HIS choosing me that I came to repentance and into a saving knowlege of My Lord Jesus Christ. <<< aren't you saved before birth? >>> Yes, I was a lost sheep ( I never knew I was lost till the Great Shepherd came after me and found me ) I was chosen to be in Christ before creation, however my conscious experience of this great event for me happened in 1983. Romans 10:10-14, says 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Although I was predestined to be saved before creation, I had to be born and " hear " the " Good News ", verses 10 and 14 stress this fact. <<< Would the timing of the return of Christ really have to wait until all being saved are saved >>>. Of course, none of Gods Elect would be lost, therefore He patiently waited for all that He had chosen to come. <<< do you consider being chosen and your being saved two separate events? >>> I believe that God predestined and chose me to be in Christ before the foundation of the world, from His viewpoint I was saved also..........................I had to be born to come into this salvation experience. This is a hard subject to grasp and understand, I know full well the struggle you are having IGIT.............but I also know Our Lord will give you understanding as you push onward. It is a joy to converse with you IGIT on the Holy Scriptures..........................May the Lord honor those who honor His Word. Grace and peace be unto you , Robert