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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Win Smith who wrote (122959)	1/9/2004 3:42:43 PM
From: aladin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Win, Your just like Pete Rose. You mess up and cannot deal with it. Obviously you don't like being called an anti-semetic racist. Maybe it gives you some sense that everyone else on this thread hates your stupid debating tricks. If you want to look at the original 3 posts: Message 19664938 With this tidbit: Europe has a much better model, of how to spread democracy and liberalism, than the U.S. Europe has steadily, incrementally, spread democracy from NW Europe, to the south and east. To which I responded: Message 19667422 With the exception of Spain and Portugal, Europe did nothing to spread democracy south and east. The Balkans are the most current example of European impotence. American influence freed the east and permitted democratic movements to take hold. Provacative? Yes, but no more so than the one to which it responded. Now you enter the thread with: Message 19668086 Not that I want to get into the problem of conservative dogma masquerading as history, but American influence "freeing the east" is pretty debatable. The immediate cause of the collapse of the East German government was the mass exodus of Ossies to West Germany . The freedom of movement that allowed this to happen arguably owes a lot more to the long term effects of Kissinger's détente and its predecessor, Willy Brandt's Ostpolitik, than it does to Reagan era saber-rattling. American influence had its part, but Europe played a role too. I know it's the holiest of conservative dogma that "Reagan won the cold war", and if your version of "history" has to fit on a bumper sticker, I guess that's ok. But that version of history willfully ignores a lot of conventional reality. Not that that's unusual or anything. The other issue here is that the local never-ending demonization of Germany for not getting with the W program totally ignores the tremendous effort and expense involved in German reunification. Anyway, Germany is hardly unique in not getting with the program, most of the rest of the world doesn't much hold with it. Now lets count the Win'isms: o Reagan - I made no mention of him o Getting with the W program - where does this come from o German demonization - nothing in my post o Conservative dogma - ?? Now when I fired back, calling you dogmatic- you start the whole defensive attack scenario - how, be specific, show me etc. However, its good that your renouncing your anti-semetism, just like Robert Byrd renounced his KKK ties. John