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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: goldworldnet who wrote (23925)1/11/2004 5:37:15 PM
From: LindyBill  Respond to of 793895
 
I read the full transcript. It is amazing how clueless the Media is to what is going on.


Meet The Blogs
: Jeff B. in the comments alerts us to a rather numbnutty discussion of blogs on Meet The Press; transcript here. The choicest moment is Roger Simon (not The Roger Simon, Our Roger Simon, the one who comes up first on Google, but the Other Roger Simon, the Dead Tree Roger Simon) insulting us all, which is to say the audience he wishes he had:

MR. RUSSERT: But you’re a blogger.
MR. SIMON: I am a blogger sort of. I mean, the difference between—look, a true blog is I woke up this morning, I decided to skip chem class, now I want to write about the last episode of “Friends.” That’s what blogs are. You know, it’s people talking to each other. My site is actually written columns. There’s a difference between writing and typing basically. Well, I mean, the theory between blogging is half correct. It’s everybody has an opinion and then the other half is: And everyone else wants to read about it. That’s not necessarily true. When I first put up the site, it got all these responses. I thought people wanted me to respond to them. They don’t. They want to talk to each other. And that has been the power that Dean has tapped into.
I go to the Other Roger Simon's nonblog and read this bit of keyboard self-abuse:
DALLAS CENTER, Iowa - - The snow blows in great gusts over the frozen furrows of the farm fields as Dick Gephardt's van pokes its way slowly through the blizzard.
Though we are just a few miles west of Des Moines, this is rural America, where the houses are few and far between and the tallest building on the horizon is always a grain elevator.
And I want to scream. That's not writing. That's wasting our time. That magazine should come with a tube of Vaseline.
I go to The Roger Simon and I find someone who, instead, knows he's talking to real people and gets to the point:
I dropped my car off for service today and it just so happened my mechanic was an Iranian, so I asked him if he had seen the "Frontline" piece on Iran on PBS last night and what he thought of it. "What shit!" he said concisely.
I agree.
The Other Roger has turned into just what he disdains and fears. He tells us about waking up in the morning and driving instead of getting to the point. He tries so hard to write that he ends up writing nothing. He fears a conversation with his audience and so he refuses to have one. This Other Roger is a dinosaur. In a million years, he will be petroleum. Then he will be petroleum jelly. Full circle.

: On the other hand, you have confessed dinosaur David Broder admitting he's no blogger but still respecting what's happening here:

MR. BRODER: Well, I am not and I never have blogged, and I’m going to get to the end of my career without blogging. I think...
MR. RUSSERT: Are you now or have you ever been a blogger, Broder?
MR. TODD: DavidBroder.com, we’re going to...
MR. BRODER: No, but I think it’s a tremendous tool, and it’s part of what is the healthiest trend in our politics, which is going back to personal communication, away from the mass media—forgive me, NBC. But I think the healthiest thing that’s going on now is people talking to people, either through the Internet or, as we’re seeing on the ground in Iowa, face-to-face communication.
MR. RUSSERT: Right. Writing letters, real-time democracy.
I have no idea what "real-time democracy" means but it sounds cool and that's why Russert says it. At least Broder is a good enough reporter to see something big happening here.

: I'm jumping around the transcript to snip the good bits. Here's how it starts:

MR. RUSSERT: ...One of the things that we will find out is just how truly effective is the Internet in this presidential race? Johns Hopkins University has already been studying it. Look at this: “The Use Of Blogs In The 2004 Presidential Election,” a study by Johns Hopkins University. [Link to PDF pf the report here -ed] And now for the computer illiterate crowd, this is a blog. This is Howard Dean’s blog. Here’s Wesley Clark’s blog. Here’s George W. Bush’s blog. And here to help us is Chuck Todd of National Journals Hotline. What is a blog?
MR. TODD: The actual term itself, by the way, is short for Web log. And, you know, you drop the W and you get the blog. [Well, to quibble, I hope no one starts calling these "eBlogs" -ed] I’ll just describe what Howard Dean’s blog since it’s the one that has the most traction and the most attention. It’s essentially like a digital bulletin board saying, “Hey, look, this is what we’re up to today. This is our message today. These are some of the things we’re doing today.” And then it allows a section to comment about what’s going on during the day. And this is where you find out who the bloggers are. These are these troops of people—Howard Dean, on any given posting, will have 150 to 200 comments per these posting. That means there’s probably about 80 to 100 people at any one time, they’re just chitchatting. It could be that they’re immediately responding to seeing Dean on television or they’re probably blogging right now while they’re watching us talking about them right now. No doubt probably they’re getting mad at us. They’re very anti-media. Reading the Dean blog is like reading Republican message points from years past and they’re anger toward the media. They felt very mad at NBC News and Lisa Myers over the last couple of days over the story, felt like somehow NBC News took his comments out of context. So it is a little...
MR. RUSSERT: Which Lisa Myers did not..
MR. TODD: No, not at all, but it was...
MR. RUSSERT: ...and the Dean campaign will acknowledge that.
MR. TODD: They acknowledge it. They did, but...
MR. RUSSERT: In effect, it’s a cyber-bulletin board.
MR. TODD: Yeah, exactly.
MR. RUSSERT: But now people who don’t like Howard Dean have occasionally gone up there and said some negative things and they are called trolls.
MR. TODD: You love this term, don’t you?
MR. RUSSERT: Correct?
MR. TODD: Yes, it is the term.
MR. RUSSERT: Roger Simon, when I say troll, I think of you.
Well, amen to that.

: They do agree that the Internet is a new and good way to raise money. They do all, even Simon, give props to the campaign for picking up organizing ideas from the Internet (using volunteers' unused cell minutes) and using the pesonal approach (those hand-written letters).
Toward the end, Ron Brownstein and cast look at what impact they think this Internet thing will have on the election.

MR. BROWNSTEIN: A long time before the Internet, Henry Luce said, “A magazine creates a community of interest that it did not know it existed.” And the blog does something of the same thing, but I think there’s a broader political question here, Tim. If you think of the blog as part of the overall phenomenon of the Internet growing in importance in politics, one question that has to be raised looking at Dean’s success is whether what it takes to succeed on the Internet and to generate this passion is inimical to what it takes to win a general election and to win over a lot of voters who are less passionate. Does it take a message and a persona that is so cutting and polarizing to attract attention on the Internet that you will then have trouble in November winning over the Senate. I mean, in the end, you need 50 million votes or so to win a presidential election and that’s a lot more people than you have at any given moment signing on to your blog....
MR. RUSSERT: You know, it’s so striking to me. When we had the big Internet bubble and everyone was saying, “The Internet’s the wave of the future and all the brick-and-mortar businesses are in trouble”—and the AOL Time Warner merger and on and on, and suddenly people said, “How do we make money off the Internet?” The question here is: Will the people who use the Internet, and talk to the blogs, will they show up on caucus night? Will they show up to vote? We have not seen it. We do not know. If they do, Howard Dean will win big. Ironically in all this, I was reading New Yorker magazine the other night, and at the end of 2002, Howard Dean himself said, “What’s a blog?”
Well, this chitchat assumes, wrongly, that (a) the Internet is for fringe opinions and (b) Internet users are Dean supporters. The logical extension of that is that Dean is fringe, but I'll leave that straightline aside. This is still stupidly generalizing.
IT'S JUST A TOOL, BOYS. Tools have no ideology or loyalty. Whether pamphleteering or phone canvassing or direct mail or the Internet or weblogs, they're just tools that are used wisely or not. Dean learned quickly and used them wisely. That says a lot about Dean -- and his people -- and little about the tools, you tools.

: Frustrating just reading that.
I'll tell you what the world needs: Another show: Meet the Blogs.
buzzmachine.com



To: goldworldnet who wrote (23925)1/12/2004 12:47:29 AM
From: LindyBill  Respond to of 793895
 
In Final Debate Before Caucuses, Democrats Tangle on Race Issues
By TODD S. PURDUM and ADAM NAGOURNEY New York Times

DES MOINES, Jan. 11 — The Democratic presidential contenders grappled on Sunday night with issues of race, taxes and national security in their final debate before next week's Iowa caucuses, getting in sharp jabs at one another on some of the most delicate questions in American politics.

Scrambling to sway undecided voters in the final days of the first presidential contest of 2004, eight of the nine candidates used a forum intended to address issues of special concern to blacks and Latinos to highlight their broad collective differences with Republicans. But under prodding from the two black candidates, they also squared off with one another.

As he has for months, Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, drew most of the fire from his rivals, on issues like the Confederate battle flag and taxes. Polls show that he and Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri are locked in a tight race for first place in the precinct caucuses here on Jan. 19.

Dr. Dean faced pointed questioning about his recent and still largely undefined promise to cut payroll taxes, with Mr. Gephardt suggesting that such a plan could weaken the Social Security system. Dr. Dean replied that he would ensure that any cut in payroll taxes would not touch the Social Security trust fund.

In one of the sharper exchanges of the whole campaign season, the Rev. Al Sharpton confronted Dr. Dean with what Mr. Sharpton described as the lack of minority officials in senior positions in Dr. Dean's administration as governor.

"Do you have a senior member of your cabinet that was black or brown?" Mr. Sharpton demanded, after Dr. Dean had earlier suggested that hiring more minorities was a key to racial understanding in America.

"We had a senior member of my staff on my fifth floor," Dr. Dean responded elliptically, in an apparent reference to the executive offices in Vermont.

"No, your cabinet!" Mr. Sharpton said. Dr. Dean responded quietly: "No, we did not."

"Then you need to let me talk to you about race in this country," Mr. Sharpton said.

Dr. Dean responded, moments later, "I will take a back seat to no one in my commitment to civil rights in America."

At another point, Senator John Edwards of North Carolina lectured Dr. Dean on Southern sensibilities. Dr. Dean had just apologized again for saying last fall that he wanted to be "the candidate for guys with Confederate flags" in their pickup trucks. He declared that the flag "is a painful symbol to African-Americans."

Mr. Edwards countered that the flag was offensive "to all Americans."

The debate revealed no major new differences among the candidates, and for the most part allowed them to use their last joint televised appearance to restate the themes most of them have been sounding in the state for more than a year. But the strains of relentless campaigning were evident in their hoarse voices, sagging faces and short tempers.

Carol Moseley Braun, unfailingly cool and cordial in past debates, seemed roused by the bickering over race. Ms. Braun pivoted off Mr. Sharpton's exchange with Dr. Dean to ask why Mr. Gephardt, as House Democratic leader, had not pressed harder to protect affirmative action programs. And she demanded to know how Mr. Edwards could vote regularly with President Bush in Congress, yet attack Dr. Dean so readily.

"You voted for the Patriot Act," she said. "You voted to deploy the missile defense system. And yet you stand up here and call Howard a hypocrite. This is not right."

Ms. Braun was just as blunt with Mr. Sharpton, with whom she has long had a tense relationship, suggesting that he was stirring racial divisions before a national television audience.

"It's time for us to talk about what are you going to do to bring people together because people cannot afford a racial screaming match," she said. "We have to come together. We have to come together as one nation to get past these problems."

Mr. Edwards disputed the details of Ms. Braun's charge, saying, "Well, Carol, that was a great speech, but what you just said is not right." And Mr. Sharpton defended his decision to assail Dr. Dean's record on civil rights, declaring: "I want him to be accountable, since he brought up race. That's not racial hysteria. That is accountability."

The combined black and Hispanic population of Iowa in the 2000 census was roughly 5 percent of the state's total populace, meaning that from the candidates' viewpoint, parts of this debate were aimed as much at voters in South Carolina, which votes on Feb. 3, as at caucus-goers here.

The Iowa Black and Brown Forum, founded to represent the interests of blacks and Latinos, has been a feature of the Iowa caucuses for 20 years, and Sunday's encounter was its fifth presidential debate since 1984. This year's caucuses coincide with Martin Luther King's Birthday, and the debate was intended to address issues of particular concern to minorities.

The session started quietly, with candidates apparently trying to emphasize their positive attributes in the final week of the Iowa race. But the moderator's first question challenged Dr. Dean to explain his four-year-old criticisms of the Iowa caucuses as favoring special interests, and the debate turned progressively raucous and was filled with difficult moments for the candidates.

Dr. Dean said, "I frankly think people are a little tired of having debates about who said what 4 years ago, or who said what 6 years ago, or 8 years ago, or 10 years ago." He went on to praise Iowa and New Hampshire for giving "candidates like me" a chance.

After the debate, Dr. Dean was the only candidate who did not appear to discuss his performance with reporters, and his campaign manager, Joe Trippi, uncharacteristically cut short an exchange with journalists eager to get his post-debate take.

In the debate, when it was time for Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut to ask a question of his opponents, he offered a long comment on tax policy that finally trailed off as a moderator, Lester Holt of MSNBC, tried to push him to come to a point. The event was broadcast by MSNBC and hosted by Mr. Holt and Maria Celeste Arraras of the Spanish-language network Telemundo.

When it was Dr. Dean's turn to ask a question, he attempted to address it not to an opponent, but to a member of the audience, until the moderator told him that violated the rules, as the audience snickered.

Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts sought, in response to a question from an audience member, to walk from behind the lectern and toward the audience until he realized that he had walked into shadows because the front of the stage was not lighted.

But Mr. Kerry distilled some of the evening's sharpest criticism against Mr. Bush, dismissing the nation's current economic situation as a "Bush-league recovery."

He added: "This recovery is a recovery for those people who have stock. It's a recovery for those people who are able to walk away with the highest salaries." And he said that "those people who run around this country talking about compassionate conservatism have shown compassion only for conservatives and the wealthiest people in the country." That led Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio to say: "The economists who are talking about recovering are the same economists who believe that a certain amount of unemployment is necessary to a functioning economy. Easy for them to say. They have jobs."

But if the candidates were united in their view of the Republican in the White House, they nevertheless continued to outline differences among themselves. Only Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who has chosen not to compete in Iowa, did not attend.

Mr. Gephardt tried to raise doubts about Dr. Dean's emerging position on the potential for a payroll tax reduction, saying "my worry is that it would undermine Social Security." But Dr. Dean said if he did eventually propose such a cut, "it will come out of the general fund in the form of a tax credit. We will not touch Social Security."

At another point, one of the questioners asked if any of the presidential candidates had hired an illegal immigrant. Not a single candidate raised a hand, and all appeared stunned at the question.

Mr. Kerry said that any noncitizen who served in the military should automatically become a naturalized citizen and criticized Dr. Dean for suggesting in an earlier answer that that should not be the case.

Dr. Dean said he supported the philosophy behind the idea but was concerned that young Hispanics would enlist in the military as a route to winning citizenship. "The concern I have is I don't want Hispanic kids choosing to go to Iraq in order simply to gain citizenship," he said.

After Mr. Kucinich questioned how Dr. Dean could balance the budget without cutting Pentagon spending, Dr. Dean replied that he would re-order military priorities. He said he would not build a missile defense system or tactical battlefield nuclear weapons, but instead would focus on other needs like expanding Special Operations Forces.

"This president is not keeping us safe," Dr. Dean said.

Mr. Kucinich, who has often delivered some of the biggest laugh lines at the debates, produced another one early in the debate in response to a question about the emphasis he would place on the space program if elected. "You know, first of all, I've been wondering why the president would, while we're still in Iraq, talk about going to the moon and going to Mars," he said. "Maybe he's looking for the weapons of mass destruction still."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company