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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (36348)	1/12/2004 12:03:15 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Alan - I think you miss the flow and meaning what Paul is doing in the book of Romans. Paul first teaches that even Gentiles know about God and have a conscience - that they have the law of God "written on their hearts" Paul goes on to prove that being a Jew does not mean you are not guilty before God and stand condemned as a sinner. In fact he does such a good job of concluding that all men are under sin and that some would die without the law but other would die with it, that he ends up saying this: Romans 3:1 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Paul is teaching that God intends to save both Jews and Gentiles and that being a Jew does not guarantee your salvation. Romans 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Alan - here Paul is plainly showing the basic SUBJECT LINE or the TRAIN OF THOUGHT That both Jews and Greeks can be saved. Paul goes on to prove that Abraham received the promise while yet in "uncircumcision" and that he was declared the "Father" of many nations while he was yet in "uncircumcision" So that Abraham was not the "Father of the Jews" but rather the "Father of all those who are justified by faith" That is what "ALL MEN" is referring to. "ALL MEN" no matter Jews or Gentile - but that does not mean "EVERY MAN" That is where you go astray and accuse me. Paul spends 4 chapters explaining that faith is to come to both Jew and Greek - not that it will come to everybody or every living soul. Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. You are taking the verse completely out of context. It is saying ... "just as all races fell in Adam - so shall all that believe be saved regardless of race" not that all men will be eventually saved. It's about salvation coming to the gentiles - it was written to Jews who lived in Rome - study acts - He went to the Jews First when he landed and then to the gentiles. Even Jesus said that He was sent to the house of Israel. Look at how Paul is arguing: Romans 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: Alan ALL of them that believe is the same all in the verse you are misusing. Look at it Alan Chapter 1 - about being a Jew and having the law and also not being a Jews and yet having 'by nature' the knowledge of God Chapter 2 - Proving that Gentiles are not the only ones guilty before God but that all men and Jews are found guilty before God "there are NONE that seeketh after God - no not ONE" Chapter 3 - 4 - 5 all in context... about the same train of thought that "ALL" men can be saved. That does not negate that only the elect among "all men" can be saved. They are in harmony not opposed to each other. God always intended to bring in the Gentiles Paul proves that the Gentiles were a part of the "many nations" that Abraham was promised to be the Father of through faith. Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. All men who are predestined to receive the gift of faith Alan Not everybody - you are mistaken. Predestination - is an integral part of it - not an opposing doctrine. Brina Brian