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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Stan who wrote (36410)	1/14/2004 8:31:44 PM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 39621

RE>>I asked you how the Spirit of Christ quickened your mortal body, as per Romans 8:11, and you respond with issues of the inner man, and not the body.<< That is because that is what it is basically about Stan You are the one trying to use it as a key rebuttal You see something being said that I do not. I quoted Young's Literal translation to attempt to show you that it was not just I who do not see your use of the verse. I was not trying to "avoid the exact wording of the verse. " I am not trying to avoid anything Stan - it does not matter to me at all what "kind" of body Christ gives me really. The quickening of the body is not Stan - referring to a physical restoration in that verse. I think you are hung up on the idea before approaching the verse. It is about being quickened from sinful actions not aging. Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. What does it mean to be dead in sins - if it is not about actions? What does it mean to "live according to the flesh" Stan? What does it mean YOU SHALL DIE??? What is YOU - your fleshly body? Adam did not die physically in the "day that he ate of it" Did God lie Stan - or are you looking at 'death' like the world does? You never did comment on what kind of body Samuel had. Here is another translation from the original Greek Stan PLEASE LOOK AT IT 11 If, moreover, the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from among the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised from among the dead Christ Jesus, shall make alive even your death-doomed bodies, through means of his indwelling Spirit within you. I am leaving for a vacation for a week Stan Brian

To: Stan who wrote (36410)	1/15/2004 12:11:30 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Stan - I decided to try a different approach. Let ne try to take what either of us believe out of the lime light for a second and see if you can see how what is happening between us happened between myself and Alan. This will not work if you are a Universalist however as you will side with Alan - I just know it :-) I do not know if you read some of the posts between Alan and myself this weekend. Alan believes at absolutely all men will be saved. He goes so far as to believe that even those who commit what is called the unforgivable sin will also be saved. How you may ask... 2 ways as far as I can tell. Jesus said neither in the present age or the age to come. 1. So they have the guy forgiven in a third age - he simply suffers unforgiveness for both that age and the one that follows but not ALL ages. 2. They make the passage speak about the sin not the one committing it. So that those who commit it are not forgiven on earth - those who will commit it in the next age will also not be forgiven on earth. I believe Alan is of the first variety. What they do is utterly disrupt the nature of what Jesus said and IMPOSE upon it their preconceived notions of Universal redemption and their sophisticated Age theories. All of which come from outside scripture to be imposed upon it. Here is what Alan considers to be a key rebuttal verse: 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. The logic goes like this "Did absolutely every soul that should ever be born die in Adam"? Answer - YES Therefore absolutely every soul that should ever be born shall be made alive in Christ. Alan maintains anyone who does not follow this logic does so because they are purposely "avoiding the exact wording of the verse" I have attempted to explain the proper way of seeing the verse. He accuses me of using a different meaning for "all" in the first half of the verse that the meaning that I apply to the second half. I have tried to show him that is not true and that he is taking the verse out of context separated from the rest of what was said. but as you may have guessed... He can't hear me Concerning the verse you are using - it is about the body before physical death not after as you are doing. but as you may have guessed... I highly doubt you will hear me Brian