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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: lurqer who wrote (35383)1/16/2004 7:32:44 PM
From: laura_bush  Respond to of 89467
 
Bravo, lurqer. You put it very, very well. Thank you. / eom



To: lurqer who wrote (35383)1/16/2004 7:42:31 PM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 

"The arrogant lunacy to claim the right to kill men, women
and children in an effort to force them to adopt your
worldview is morally indefensible."


<edit>Bin Laden's tactics brought an appropriate response.

And yes, Bin Laden's "arrogant lunacy" you described so
precisely, but inappropriately attributed to the Bush
Admin, was "morally indefensible" & equally reprehensible.



To: lurqer who wrote (35383)1/16/2004 8:32:06 PM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
"to claim that the choice was between the status quo, or the march to Baghdad is a false dichotomy."

Hmmmm...... 9/11 - a vivid demonstration that the policies
of the last decade (read status quo), appeasement &
diplomacy, had utterly failed......

....OBL's open declaration of war whether we respond to it
or not.....

....That warmongering, genocidal thug, Saddam was openly
flaunting his willingness to defy the UN, while
simultaneously upgrading his WMD programs. Saddam allowed
his people to suffer while he took Oil for Food
money to line his pockets & pay off France, Germany,
Russia, China, ET AL, with fat illegal contracts, many of
which were to rebuild his war machine. Then there were
those constant infractions in "no fly zones" where Saddam
regularly shot at Coalition forces. Yadda, yadda, yadda....

Saddam's ties to Al Qaeda & other terrorist organizations
were widely known throughout many international
intelligence organizations.

Saddam had 12 long years to comply. He chose instead a
massive denial & deception campaign & reorganized his WMD
programs so they would have cover stories (dual use,
etc.). It's goal was to create the ability to quickly move
to just-in-time production of mass quantities of WMD's
once inspections were removed.

The Bush Admin drew a line in the sand. Once last time
Saddam repeated history & flagrantly crossed it.

Yup, "the choice was between the status quo, or the march
to Baghdad" was, in the end, Saddam's choice. The march to
Baghdad was more than appropriate IMO.



To: lurqer who wrote (35383)1/16/2004 8:49:15 PM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 89467
 
RE: "status quo"

Noting a few pertinent facts from UN Resolution 1441.....

Resolution 1441

....Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,....

....Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions....

<font size=4>
....Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the
Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on
acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution,
including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,

....Decides.... to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a
final opportunity
to comply with its disarmament
obligations under relevant resolutions
<font size=3> of
the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced
inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and
verified completion the disarmament process....

....in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations.... the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;....

....false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq
pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment....

....Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access
to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC’s or the IAEA’s choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, ,such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi Government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter.....
<font size=4>
....the contents of the letter shall be binding upon
Iraq....
<font size=3>
....UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites....

....UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq’s chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;....

....UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected....
<font size=4>
....UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and
unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged
aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance
vehicles....
<font size=3>
....UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof....

....Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;....

....Requests the Secretary-General <font size=4>immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq;<font size=3> demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution;
<font size=4>and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA;....

....the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will
face serious consequences as a result of its continued
violations of its obligations....
<font size=3>

un.int