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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gamesmistress who wrote (24890)	1/17/2004 9:48:36 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793800

And IMO, right now an "internationally recognized border" acceptable to all parties does not exist. I think so too. Tom Friedman seems to buy into the idea that there is such a border, and that it's a historic injustice for Jews to live east of it. I see why Arabs claim this, but not why an American, particularly an American Jew, should buy into it. The Arabs promised to recognize the Green Line in 1949, but welshed on the deal. Had Jordan recognized the border in 1967, there would be no problem. But Jordan did not recognize it; they invaded Israel despite Levi Eshkol's pleas to stay out of the war. Once they lost the West Bank, naturally the Green Line became a sacred border -g- If the Pals had been ready to join the talks in 1974 or 1979, they might have gotten nearly everything back. But they weren't. Not even the infamous UN res 242 says the border has to be the Green Line exactly; it talks of negotiated borders. So I hardly see an "historical injustice" in Israel keeping places like Gush Etzion, which Zionists bought and developed in the 20s, were driven out of in 1948, and returned to in 1967. It's a piece of the Mandate of Palestine to the east of a truce line. If you admit that Arabs and ONLY Arabs have any right to be on the West Bank, by what right are Jews living in the rest of Israel, to the west of the truce line? The Arab answer is: by no right, by right of conquest only. Is this what America believes too? So does everybody shift to the idea that it's right and proper that a million Arabs live in Israel, but Palestine must be Jew-free? (And never mind that other Palestinian country, Jordan. Doesn't count.) Those who argue this case will say "but the Arabs were there first," but they will suddenly acquire amnesia when it's pointed out that Jews were in Hebron or the Jewish quarter of the Old City first too, and nobody minded when the Jordanians drove them out. For that matter, the Jews were in Baghdad too before any Arabs arrived. The arguments against "transfer" all seem to work in one direction only. If an actual internationally recognized border existed, that is, one recognized by neighbors on both sides of the border, it would be a different case. But it doesn't, and all efforts to negotiate one have failed.

To: gamesmistress who wrote (24890)	1/18/2004 5:44:46 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793800

“It was always my wish to turn my body into deadly shrapnel against the Zionists and knock on the doors of Heaven with the skulls of Zionists,” she said. “I always wanted to be the first (Hamas) woman to carry out a martyrdom operation where parts of my body can fly all over.” She said, smiling at times, that she had the dreams since she was 13. “God gave me two children and I loved them so much. Only God knew how much I loved them.” She asked that her children should study in religious schools. The world has 150 million Muslim militants, 15 million active Muslim extremists, and 1.5 million fanatics ready to commit suicide attacks on any day. Many - too many youngsters are in training today to assume these roles in the future. The sheer strength represented by these numbers is overwhelming. If we take out 1,000 Muslim militant, extremist fanatics everyday, we will need 1,500 years to get the current crop of suicide attackers off the streets. I feel no compassion for the adults. They have chosen their path. Perhaps the worst of this nightmare is this mom's wish for her children to raised in the Madrass system that created her attitude. I would like to find a way to influence the Muslim kids, but have no idea where to begin. There is a lot of counter-terrorism work to do. The final conclusion to this war is far from certain imo. uw