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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Skywatcher who wrote (3054)	1/23/2004 12:48:51 PM
From: maceng2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36918

The correct thing for the anti immigration group to do is form their own club, and see if it is popular and successful.

To: Skywatcher who wrote (3054)	1/23/2004 1:19:09 PM
From: Crocodile	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36918

Thanks for posting that, CC. Interesting article that highlights some of the difficult moral issues that are actually a large part of developing strategy and policies to prevent ecological destruction of natural habitats and species. As a person who is involved in grassroots type conservation projects, my instincts tell me that humans have to be kept right out of certain areas or they will (often inadvertently), cause destruction to habitats and species. On the other hand, you realize that humans need to have places to go to relax and unwind, and it's only through their contact with nature and natural areas, that they can develop any appreciation for the rationale behind preserving an area rather than paving right over it. Obviously, my own involvement is at such a reductionist level, that I rarely spend much brain power on the larger picture which I have almost no control over anyhow (zero population growth). Being up here in Canada, population issues haven't quite reached the same critical level that is now being experienced in many parts of the U.S. However, recently I've been doing a lot of study of issues related to ATVs and snowmobiles, and the stuff happening in the states is enough to make me freaked out. The sheer number of machines going into natural areas, and the growth curve of these units is incredible. I keep thinking, "Wow!! Sure am glad that the whole population of Canada is about that of all of California!". Of course, that won't be the case for long, as the population of Canada is growing and will, eventually, hit that weird stage where numbers of people suddenly start to skyrocket. At a purely pragmatic level, I just look at the whole thing and think, either we stamp on the brakes on human growth right now... or we just accept the inevitable... that humans are destined to destroy every last blade of grass and tree -- just like the trees on Easter Island -- probably sometime within this very century. It's a freakish thought and makes you begin to develop a garrison mentality. I know I'm already feeling that way when I go to put my canoe in at some remote lake, and find a whole bunch of pickup trucks and boat trailers clogging up the only little road down to the lake -- and that all of them have U.S. plates. I fully admit that it's always a struggle for me to just smile and say "Howdy, How's it going? Catching lots of fish?" to all of these guys who seem to be descending on the small lakes like a pack of damned locusts -- and who won't go away until the last fish has been hauled out. That kind of thing really spooks me and I don't know what to say about how it makes me feel inside. Seems a bit like being a dog in a manger to stick up a bunch of "Yankee, Go Home" signs at every boat launch. But at the same time, do we just sit idly by, watching all the boats, and the trailers with the ATVs and the snowmobiles, come up over the border to get up to the "Canadian wilderness"? Instead, you feel just a little angry and like saying, "What are you doing up here? No fish left down in your country?" (o: Hmmmm... problematic, isn't it? Seems a lot like trying to figure out what to do about population growth and immigration, etc... On a gut level, it makes you furious and you want to stop it, but on a human level, you don't like to deny other people the opportunity to enjoy the land -- but you just hope they don't trash the place during the process. It's a disturbing dilemma -- especially for many conservationists as they tend to be the same people who are often involved in humanitarian projects in their own and other countries. This is definitely something which is receiving a lot of discussion among this group of people (if we can call them a group). Much of what is being discussed now, has to do with trying to help people in other countries to find ways of dealing with habitat destruction on their own ground -- and of course, a big part of the problem is...yep... globalization, and the expansion of North American, European, etc.. industries into someone else's pristine wilderness. Basically, the whole damned thing is a mess. So, back to the beginning. What to do about the kind of issues raised in that article? IMO, it's a difficult line to try to walk. Interesting to see these issues raised in such a political way at this point in time. My guess is that we're going to be hearing a lot more of this kind of thing as the population of the U.S. continues to soar, and as urban population centers continue to explode out across the land. croc