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Politics : World Affairs Discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: ChinuSFO who wrote (3511)1/25/2004 12:26:01 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 3959
 
chinu. You said...." Why India, the second largest Muslim country in the world, is not a terrorists' stronghold but instead a bastion of democracy. "....

So what. Does this somehow justify in your mind all the atrocities committed in the name of islam in the rest of the world? Turkey is also a muslim country and democracy and that's good but it also does not justify radical islam in the rest of the world.

And as you said....." You may yell from rooftops to the contrary, but facts are facts and the only way you can refute that is to speak to those issues.".....

The USA also is NOT a stronghold of islam terrorists but on Sept.11 3000 people died.

If you must defend islam then at least defend those muslims who speak out against terror and lies that are being taught by crazy islam clerics who teach little kids that suicide is good and better when when accompanied by the murder of innocent people. And chinu, these kids really believe they will be rewarded in some paradise for murder.



To: ChinuSFO who wrote (3511)1/25/2004 12:28:19 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 3959
 
China's terror fight fuels Muslim fears, alienation
By Jehangir Pocha, Globe Correspondent, 1/17/2004
boston.com

BEIJING -- China's designation of four Muslim separatist groups and 11 individuals as terrorists has alarmed many Chinese Muslims, who say such actions by the government are fraying their already tenuous ties with other Chinese.

Groups from the western region of Xinjiang, where some ethnic Uighurs are fighting to create the independent state of East Turkestan, dominate the list, which was announced last month. It was China's first formal accounting of suspected terrorists.

The dispute between Beijing and the Muslim Uighurs dates to 1949, when the region was annexed by China. But since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, China has cast the conflict as one driven by Islamic fundamentalism.

"Since 9/11, people's perception of us [Muslims] has changed," Abdul Qadeer, 20, a migrant in Beijing, said recently as he set tables at the West Wind cafe. "We were always the outsiders; now we are the enemy."

At Beijing's Central University for Nationalities, Muslim students seemed exasperated with what they called China's cold war against Islam.

In Xinjiang, "we were not allowed to grow beards or fast during Ramadan. If you did, you were expelled from school," said Yaseen Mohammad, 22. "Even now, I would like to grow a beard, but I worry it will become more difficult to get a job." He paused then added, "And no Chinese girl will look at me."

Other students are laughing, but the growing ostracism of Muslims is very real, Yaseen said.

In most large Chinese cities, Muslims live in ghettos, and the community sticks to itself. Generally poor and often unemployed, some Uighurs also turn to crime.

"They think we are all criminals," Khader Ja, 25, said recently as he kneaded a mound of dough at the Heavenly Lake bakery on what used to be Beijing's infamous Uighur Street, a Uighur ghetto in the heart of Beijing. Once reputed to be a den of thieves, prostitution, and drug runners, the thoroughfare was recently dismantled by the local government after a bus bombing in Beijing by suspected Uighur separatists killed two and injured 30.

Zheng Hufeng, 49, a retail store manager in Beijing, is one of those who admits to having antipathy toward Muslims. "These people only want to fight. They are dangerous."

Such knee-jerk, stereotypical responses that brand the entire Muslim community are alienating ordinary Muslims, Khader and other Muslims in Beijing say.

Michael Dillon, a professor of East Asian studies at the University of Durham in Britain and the author of "China's Muslims," said the general perception among Chinese "is that Islam is foreign and backward and it would be much better if Muslims abandoned their religion and became more modern."

Human rights groups accuse the government of attempting to alter the ethnic and cultural make-up of Xinjiang and some other Muslim areas. Amnesty International says huge numbers of Han Chinese have been resettled in Xinjiang, local language Islamic schools closed, illegal birth control measures instituted against Uighurs, and many Uighur women pressured to marry Han Chinese.

The US Department of State's Annual Reports on Religious Freedom have also accused the government of preventing Muslim worshipers from going on the Haj pilgrimage, trying to get Muslim women to shed the veil, and preventing the construction of mosques.

Amnesty International says more than 500 Uighurs suspected of being "splittists" have been killed by Chinese authorities, and more than 5,000 have been arrested since 1985.

In numerous reports and statements, the government has accused the Uighurs of having ties to Al Qaeda and receiving training and support from fundamentalist groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asia. The said it captured about 300 Uighurs during operations in Afghanistan.

Xinjiang has become the death-penalty capital of the world, rights groups say. Although the exact number of people executed in China is a state secret, Amnesty estimates the number to be 4,000 to 6,000 a year. While only a small fraction of those executed are political activists, a large number are Uighurs.

To insulate all of China's Muslims from foreign influence, the government has forbidden Chinese Islamic groups from forging ties with Islamic organizations based abroad. Only mosques and organizations affiliated with the Islamic Association of China, or IAC, which takes it orders from Beijing, are permitted.

Still, Xue Tian Li, imam of the 1,300-year-old Niujie Mosque in Beijing, says such restrictions have no bearing on the private worship of China's Muslims, because "most of the Koran and prayers are about the same in China as anywhere."

But outside the mosque on a recent evening, as prayers ended and men congregated in the historic courtyard to chat, different opinions were aired, including a challenge to the government's estimate of the number of Muslims in China. "There are far more than 20 million Muslims," said a man from Sichuan Province who gave his name only as Kemal. "They do not register with the IAC because it is not the true Islam. [They hide] for they fear they will be targeted."

For Muslims like Khader, the baker, there is only one solution. "I just want to get out of here. . . . USA, Kuwait, Pakistan, anywhere," he said.



To: ChinuSFO who wrote (3511)1/25/2004 12:40:24 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 3959
 
chinu. You said...." Lorne, I told you again, the second largest Muslim country in the world, India is relatively more prosperous economically and intellectually and in such conditions, the Islamists will never gain a stronghold.'....

India's Muslim Time Bomb
By Pankaj Mishra
The New York Times
17 September, 2003
countercurrents.org

Soon after arriving at the site of the bomb explosions in
Bombay that killed more than 50 people last month - the sixth and most
lethal in a recent series of blasts in the city - Lal Krishna Advani, the
deputy prime minister in India's Hindu nationalist government, blamed
terrorists based in Pakistan.

This was to be expected: the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party routinely
describes India as besieged by Muslim terrorists backed by Pakistan and
based there or in the disputed valley of Kashmir, where Indian security
forces have fought a Muslim insurgency for more than a decade. This time,
however, Mr. Advani's accusation was swiftly contradicted by the Bombay
police. The four people arrested this month in connection with the attacks
were Indian Muslims, part of a new group called the Gujarat Muslim Revenge
Force. They may have received logistical support from a Pakistani militant
outfit with links to Al Qaeda, but they were Indian citizens.

This can be only disturbing news - for India, the region and the United
States. The radical Islamist movements that spread so quickly in the last
decade in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan had heretofore left
untouched India's 140 million Muslims, even as the Hindu nationalists rose
to power in India by demanding, among other things, that Muslims adopt
what they define as India's "Hindu culture."

Indian Muslims had stayed away from the anti-India insurgency of their
culturally distinct co-religionists in Kashmir. More remarkably, they had
not heeded the many pied pipers of jihad in Afghanistan and Pakistan who
lured Muslims from all parts of the world, and managed to delude even a
non-Muslim from California.

It may be that most Indian Muslims are too poor and downtrodden to join
radical causes elsewhere. It is also true that they have an advantage
denied to most Muslims in the world: they can participate in regular
elections and choose - since they comprise just 13 percent of India's
population - their representatives if not rulers.

But this faith in democracy, which Indian Muslims have long expressed by
voting tactically and in large numbers, has been tested repeatedly in the
last decade. In 1992 Hindu nationalists demolished a 16th-century mosque
in the town of Ayodhya that they claimed was built by a Muslim conqueror
of India upon the birthplace of the Hindu god Rama. The Bharatiya Janata
Party, which assumed power in 1998 promising to restore Hindu pride,
promises to soon complete the construction of a temple on the site of the
demolished mosque.

In the nationwide violence that followed the demolition of the mosque a
decade ago, almost 2,000 people, mostly Muslims, died in Bombay alone. In
1998, an inquiry identified some Hindu police officers and politicians
responsible for the killings; not one has been tried or convicted.
Observing the 10th anniversary of the killings last year, Amnesty
International noted that "even when those responsible are identified, they
are allowed to go unpunished."

And early last year, more than 2,000 Muslims were killed in the western
Indian state of Gujarat in a series of attacks by mobs that Human Rights
Watch has said were organized and protected by Gujarat's Hindu nationalist
rulers. Here, too, the perpetrators of the very public massacres are
mostly known. But they are unlikely to face justice, judging by the
collapse of one recent trial in which the primary prosecution witness in a
massacre case withdrew her testimony; human rights groups say she was
threatened by Hindu extremists.

So the surprising thing, perhaps, is not that militant groups like the
Gujarat Muslim Revenge Force are now emerging in India, but that it has
taken so long. As revealed by the English-language newspaper The Indian
Express, most of the 27 Muslims who have been arrested by the Bombay
police in connection with the string of bombings confessed that they did
so in revenge for the state-assisted killings of Muslims in Gujarat.

What is particularly worrisome about the new Muslim terrorism is the
backgroud of its adherents. Many of these young men have degrees in
business management, forensic science, and chemical and aeronautical
engineering. They have been radicalized in a geopolitical environment that
has never been more highly fraught for the Muslim community at large. And
so while the rage and resentment of such educated Muslims may have purely
Indian origins, they are now likely to feed faster on the international
events - the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the bombings in Indonesia,
Morocco, Saudi Arabia and Baghdad - that probably still seem too remote to
an older, impoverished generation of Indian Muslims.

The parallel with Indonesia, a new and floundering democracy, is striking.
In the only country with more Muslims than India, a new, educated and
politically aware generation has outgrown the old tolerant culture of
Indonesian Islam. Its distrust of the Indonesian government, which they
call anti-Muslim and pro-American, is increasingly channeled into the
politics of anti-Americanism and, for some young Muslims at least, into
association with Al Qaeda and radical Islamist groups in East Asia.

Yet while religious violence has made the Indonesian government cautious
in its dealings with both radical Islamists and the Bush administration,
the Hindu nationalists in New Delhi and the provinces seem eager to expand
the Indian Muslim list of grievances. Their initial desire to assist the
Bush administration and commit Indian troops to postwar Iraq was checked
only by strong protests from opposition parties. And in a spectacular
reversal of India's traditional support for the Palestinians, the
Bharatiya Janata Party is developing close political and military
relations with Israel, whose prime minister, Ariel Sharon, visited India
last week.

With general elections next year, the nationalists are unlikely to tone
down their anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan language. Muslims pondering their
fate in Hindu- nationalist-ruled India will feel only a greater sense of
isolation and impotence.

It is exactly these sorts of local political frustrations that - in North
Africa, the Middle East and, more recently, East Asia - have given the
network of terrorism its global range and resilience. In historical
retrospect, the explosions in Bombay may come to be seen as the moment
when the recruiters of Al Qaeda, heartened by the mess in Iraq and by
fresh gains in Indonesia, received news of some more unexpected bounty:
militant disaffection among the second-largest Muslim population in the
world.