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To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (176651)	1/26/2004 4:47:15 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Respond to of 186894

funny thing, after I posted this, I happened upon this article (from Yahoo finance home page) High-Tech Degrees Don't Guarantee Jobs While there are hopeful signs outside the technology sector, outsourcing of computer programming and customer service jobs to China, India and other countries with cheaper labor costs have dimmed prospects for seniors like computer-science major Andrew Zhou, said Richard White, director of career services at Rutgers. Eager to ride the high-tech tide, Zhou double-majored in computer science and finance when he arrived at Rutgers University in 2000. But as graduation approaches, Zhou is pinning his hopes on finance and dropping the idea he once had that computer know-how guaranteed him a job. "Four years ago, it seemed like an awesome major," Zhou said as he waited to speak with a recruiter for a telecommunications management firm at Rutgers' annual career day. "Now, nobody wants to get in because all the jobs are going to India." White noted that "Jobs that used to be available for U.S. citizens are being diverted overseas where the quality is equal or better at a fraction of the cost." biz.yahoo.com

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (176651)	1/27/2004 3:18:01 AM
From: Amy J	Respond to of 186894

Hi Lizzie, RE: "We have more engineers than can find work in a fairly robust growth environment in technology, not to mention the famous 8% GDP." How many are they graduating in the science fields (math, cs, physics, etc.) now at Berkeley & Stanford? I suspect they'll get absorbed this year, certainly next year, if the hum on some of these new technologies is any indicator. RE: "are new college grads and blue collar men from the rust belt. siliconvalley.com This speaks to the need for new innovation in universities. When we pause on innovation, wages drop in the USA. I'm surprised the article wasn't titled, "when innovation slows down, wages sink, so lets increase RND to increase wages" RE: "So to claim that only mature industries are moving offshore doesn't really wash." Startups too. As you know, $105k for an NCG with 0 yrs of experience was too much risk for a startup to absorb. RE: " New engineering graduates who are interested in VoIP have to be looking at this and wondering what their future is in the USA." Lots of creative things happening in VoIP. It's not often a system changes overnight, and everyone is on the same bandwagon. RE: "offshore indian employees are exempt from both US and Indian tax" Huh? Indian taxes are way higher than ours. Which is another reason why you never see me expressing concern about India's stock option treatment, only China is a concern here. RE: "These are things that can really help matters but from what I can see... nobody has suggested it (at least no tech CEO)- how come?" If payroll taxes dropped, Corporations would be stiffed with the tax bill in a variant form. So, the only one who benefits are consultants. ( If the SS payroll tax is removed from consultants, employees might depart companies and turn into consultants just for that extra 7%. So doubt hightech could advocate this. ) RE: "I thought stock options were a way to level the financial playing field for US engineers" For us it does. RE: " I think msft's decision to move offshore" MS has not "moved offshore." Spoke recently with half a dozen divisions, they are all here. As stated in news reports, Internationalization is done overseas. There is new hiring in the USA and overseas as the world is now global. They better know their customers. What happens when demand goes back up? You said Clinton grew jobs by 300,000/month, yet there are only 300,000 graduates per year and 5,000 Sci PhDs per year, and there are say 1M unemployed hightech people - how many are still available to hire? Regards, Amy J