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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: FaultLine who wrote (26505)	1/27/2004 7:24:55 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793914

"if you just paid me more, I would work harder." FL, I think your wife's efforts are highly commendable. They certainly reflect very high standards and work ethic. The work hours she keeps are very long and arduous. My wife is also a teacher. Much of her spare time now is spent voluntarily tutoring recently arrived refugee kids. I asked her if she would work harder for more money...She said no. I believe my Karen is an exceptional and devoted teacher. I can tell you think similarly about your bride. The two of them are undoubtedly among the best. The money issue as discussed here in the past is not about the best teachers. Even LB has written that the best teachers deserve more pay. I believe the issues for him (though not articulated well in that post) are across the board pay raises and permanent tenure with no performance considerations. Those are issues that are addressed in every other job...why should teachers be exempt from performance considerations? What is the opposition to first identifying, then paying the very best teachers more? uw

To: FaultLine who wrote (26505)	1/27/2004 7:38:35 AM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 793914

I just can not sit here an listen to you degrade teachers like this. Sorry if I pissed you off, FL. I should have been more explicit. Some Teachers feel as I said, but all Teacher's Unions operate on the basis that the problem is that salaries are too low and the solution is to be found in paying more money. The solution will be reached by changing the structure, IMO. Starting with restricting the power of the Teachers Union. The fact that your wife is not motivated by money but by motivating her students speaks well for her and is true of many teachers. I would not be surprised to hear that she believes many of the problems she faces at school are caused by the Bureaucracy she has to deal with. My "ex" a retired California School Teacher, had the same outlook. And she did one hell of a job as a Teacher. I fought the battle for Vouchers in California, and dealt with the CTA on a "nose to nose" basis. I know just how strong that Union is.

To: FaultLine who wrote (26505)	1/27/2004 6:48:55 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 793914

Hi FL. Your wife should be commended for her extraordinary efforts. She is likely far more dedicated than a vast majority of her peers. She is an exception to the rule if you will. I say this from my own personal observations of numerous schools in many states for more than a decade. My wife & sister were both teachers for many years as well. They both taught in a number of school districts during their time as teachers & have observations quite similar to my own. Now that they have left teaching behind, they know first hand the difference between teaching & other occupations. Teachers do not work anywhere near as hard or as long as most normal blue or white-collar workers. Most teachers are like most normal people. They believe they work too hard for too little pay. I have spent too much time in too many schools that has shown me conclusively that teachers, for the most part, do not put in long hours when compared to most normal occupations. I have witnessed countless times where schools become ghost towns before 3 pm & their work day begins at 8 am or so. That means their face time in a school is less than 35 hours in a normal week. This does not include their free time between classes, their daily 'free' period, their daily study hall, lunch break, pep rallies, assorted assemblies & shortened days for various reasons. And the few after school activities are not staffed by large contingents of teachers. In fact, the biggest complaint I have heard from teachers themselves is that most teachers, once they have tenure, do the absolute minimum required to keep their jobs, leaving a scant few dedicated teachers to handle all extra-curricular activities. I must say from my own observations that this seems to be the case. Teachers have a 180-day work year with a few 'in service' days. That is far shorter than most normal occupations. Most normal occupations require 230-240 workdays per year or more. Teachers' average workweek is less than 30 hours per week when school is actually in session. That doesn't include a good number of 1/2 days & shortened days that count as full workdays every year. Even if you generously add 10 hours a week, of work outside of the classroom every single week, most teachers still average much less than 40 hours work per week, yet they receive 10-12 weeks more time off from work each year than most normal occupations. Again, your wife's dedication is extraordinary. While many teachers claim to work through lunch, on their free period, during study hall & evenings at home, I have witnessed teachers lounges filled to capacity all day long with teachers clearly enjoying themselves & doing nothing resembling work. I have watched teachers read newspapers, books, grading tests, etc., in class while students read or worked on in class assignments, when these teachers were supposed to be teaching. I have frequently had teachers try to schedule time with me when they were supposed to be teaching, instead of during their free period or a study hall. And they never, ever scheduled time with me after school hours because they were simply too busy during normal school hours. And I never heard one complaint about how I was intruding on their busy schedule. Not once. I could cite countless examples where the vast majority of teachers have managed to keep their work time to the absolute minimum. Most teachers simply update their lesson plans each year or reuse the same one over & over until something in the curriculum changes, again making your wife the exception, rather than the rule. There are so many stories I've heard about so many ways teachers have made their jobs easier at the expense of improving the education of their students. When I hear claims about how much time they spend working on those same issues, I know that they are no different than any other employee at any other occupation. Perception & reality stand at distinct odds with each other.