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To: Murrey Walker who wrote (60639)1/28/2004 4:44:04 PM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 65232
 
Knowledge is power Murrey. I think I do a good job of
providing credible, accurate & verifiable information that
can lead one to make informed conclusions that have a
basis in reality.

If anyone wishes to relentlessly ignore credible
information that consistently discredits their POV, then
others will gain knowledge about the credibility,
character & intentions of those individuals.

Below is some more damning evidence against many countries
& individuals who opposed the war. They have been held up
as the ultimate authorities on why the Bush Administration
was wrong to remove Saddam. And like the extremely
lucrative illegal arms sales many of these countries had
with Iraq, they were also amply compensated for supporting
the regime.

Saddam compensated his "friends" in barrels of oil

Le journal irakien "Al-Mada" a publié une liste des personnes bénéficiaires des largesses du raïs. Onze Français sont cités, dont Charles Pasqua. Un responsable du ministère du pétrole affirme que des "poursuites en justice" seront engagées pour récupérer "l'argent du peuple irakien".
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The Iraqi journal "Al- Mada" published a list of beneficiaries of the regime. Eleven French citizens are cited, among them Charles Pasqua. An official of the ministery of petroleum affirmed that some judicial investigations will be engaged in to recoup money for the people of Iraq.
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Bagdad de notre envoyé spécial

Baghdad, from our special envoy

Saddam Hussein récompensait ses amis étrangers, notamment tous ceux qui étaient les zélateurs de son régime et s'en faisaient les ambassadeurs. Cela était connu. Plus de dix mois après la chute de la dictature irakienne, des éléments de preuve ont été publiés pour la première fois, dimanche 25 janvier, par un journal indépendant Al-Mada (L'Horizon).
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Saddam Hussein compensated his foreign friends, notably those who were partisans of his regime and acted as its ambassadors. They were well-known. More than ten months after the fall of the Iraqi dictator, some elements of proof have been published for the first time, Sunday the 25th of January, by an independent newspaper "Al-Mada" (The Horizon).
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Sur une pleine page, ce nouveau quotidien étale dans son 45e numéro, la liste de plus de 270 personnalités connues ou inconnues, de sociétés, de parlementaires, d'associations, des journalistes, des partis politiques qui ont profité des largesses du raïs déchu.
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On a full page, the new daily lays out in its 45th number the list of more than 270 personalities known or unknown, the societies, the parlementarians, the associations, the journalists, the political parties which profited from the largess of the fallen regime.
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Facsimilé à l'appui, ce journal dénonce "la plus grande opération de corruption" de l'ancien régime. Et il affirme que "des millions de barils de pétrole ont été offerts à des individus qui n'ont rien à voir avec les activités pétrolières". Au total, 16 pays arabes, 17 européens, 9 asiatiques et 4 d'Afrique et d'Amérique du Sud et du Nord sont concernés par cette opération de récompense.
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With a facsimile to support it, the journal denounces "the great operation of corruption" of the former regime. And it affirms that "millions of barrels of oil were offered to individuals who overlooked the oil activities of the regime." In total, 16 Arab countries, 17 European, 9 Asian, and 4 African and South and North America were involved in this operation of compensation.
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Abdel Saheb Salmane Qotob, sous-secrétaire au ministère du pétrole, nous a confirmé ces informations précisant que parmi les personnalités impliquées figurent deux premiers ministres, deux ministres des affaires étrangères ainsi que des fils de ministres et de chefs d'Etat.
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Abdel Saheb Salmane Qotob, under- secretary of the ministery petroleum, confirmed to us this information precisely that among the persons implicated figured two prime ministers, two ministers of foreign affairs, as well as the sons of ministers and chiefs of State.
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"Le ministère va dévoiler tous les noms et les poursuivre en justice pour récupérer l'argent du peuple irakien", a-t-il indiqué, ajoutant que "les informations nécessaires étaient recueillies pour les soumettre à Interpol et les poursuivre car Saddam Hussein a acheté les consciences et dilapidé la richesse pétrolière de l'Irak".
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The ministery was going to unveil all the names and pursue them judicially in order to recoup the money of the Iraq people:, he indicated, adding that "the necessary information was gathered to submit to Interpol and to pursue them because Saddam Hussein bought their consciences and despoiled the oil riches of Iraq."
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Pour la France, pas moins de onze noms sont publiés avec la quantité de barils de pétrole qui leur a été allouée.
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For France, no less than eleven names are published with the quantity of barrels of oil that they were allocated.
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Parmi eux, écrits avec une orthographe parfois approximative et comprenant quelques incertitudes sur les prénoms ou intitulés de sociétés et associations, figurent la société Adax, Patrick Maugein de Traficor ou Travicor, Michel Grimard, l'association d'amitié arabo-française, Charles Pasqua, Elias El-Ferzeli ou Ghazarli d'origine libanaise, Claude Kaspereit, Bernard Mérimée (ancien ambassadeur de France à Rome et à l'ONU), Bernard Desmaret et De Souza.
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Among them, written with an orthography sometimes approximate and containing some uncertainties on the surnames or titles of the societies and associations, figure the society Adax, Patrick Maugein of Traficor or Travicor, Michel Grimard (the Association of Arab- french Friendship), Charles Pasqua, Elias El- Ferzeli or Gharzarli (of Lebanese origin), Claude Kaspereit, Bernard Merimee (former ambassador of France to Rome and the UN), Bernard Desmaret and De Souza.
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12 millions de barils auraient notamment été alloués à Charles Pasqua, quatre autres M. Kaspereit et trois à M. Mérimée tandis que Patrick Maugein aurait bénéficié de 25 millions de barils. Aucune autre précision n'est donnée. Les documents proviennent de la SOMO (State Oil Marketing Organisation), société de commercialisation du pétrole rattachée au ministère du pétrole.Twelve million barrels have, notably, been allocated to Charles Pasqua, four others to Mr. Kaspereit, and three to Mr. Merimee as well as Patrick Maugein, who benefited from 25 million barrels. Nothing more precise is given. The documents were provided by the State Oil Marketing Organization, the commercial society of oil attached to the ministery of petroleum.

UNE LETTRE DE LA SOMO

A letter to the SOMO

Georges Gallaway, ancien député travailliste aux Communes, figure en bonne place dans la liste. Son nom est mentionné dans six contrats et le journal publie une lettre de la SOMO en date du 31 décembre 1999, signée par Saddam Zbin, cousin de Saddam Hussein qui gérait cette société et dans laquelle il demande au ministère du pétrole de lui accorder des contrats. Apparemment, ce parlementaire britannique a été particulièrement bien traité. Mais il n'est pas le seul.
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George Gallaway, former Labour deputy in the House of Commons, figures highly on the list. His name is mentioned in six contracts and the journal published a letter of the SOMO dated the 31 of December, 1999, signed by Saddam Zbin, cousin of Saddam Hussein who managed oil contracts for him. Apparently, the British parlementarian was well treated. But he is not alone.
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Dans cette très longue liste figure aussi Khaled, le fils du président égyptien Nasser, le fils du ministre syrien de la défense, le fils du président du Liban, Emile Lahoud, la fille du président indonésien Sukarno, Megawati, aujourd'hui premier ministre, l'église orthodoxe russe et le Parti communiste russe.
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In this very long list figures also Khaled, the son of the Egyptian president Nasser, the son of the Syrian minister of defense, the son of the president of Lebanon (Emile Lahoud), the daughter of Indonesian president Sukarno (Megawati), the current prime minister, the orthodox church of Russia, and the Russian Commmunist Party.
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L'ultranationaliste russe Vladimir Jirinovski, lui aussi, est particulièrement bien loti (79,2 millions de barils). Des sociétés suisses, des ressortissants italiens, des députés jordaniens, des hommes politiques égyptiens, le Front populaire de libération de la Palestine (FPLP), l'organisation de libération de la Palestine (OLP) sont cités. La liste n'est pas exhaustive.
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Ultranationalist Russian Vladimir Jirinovski, he also, is particularly well-off (79.2 million barrels). Some Swiss societies, some Italian nationalists, some Jordanian deputies, some Egyptian politicians, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the PLO are cited. The list is not exhaustive.
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Parmi les pays cités figurent entre autres : l'Afrique du Sud, l'Algérie, l'Arabie saoudite, l'Australie, Bahreïn, la Biélorussie, le Brésil, la Bulgarie, le Canada, la Chine, Chypre, l'Espagne, la Libye, la Malaisie, le Maroc, le Nigeria, Oman, le Panama, les Philippines, le Qatar, la Roumanie, la Turquie, l'Ukraine, le Yémen et la Yougoslavie.
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Among the countries cited figure: South Africa, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Bahrein, Belarus, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Cyprus, Spain, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Oman, Panama, the Phillippines, Qatar, Romania, Turkey, Ukraine, Yemen, and Yugoslavia.......
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lemonde.fr@2-3218,36-350628,0.html



To: Murrey Walker who wrote (60639)1/28/2004 5:57:21 PM
From: abstract  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 65232
 
In this instance (and theoretically others) I am not baiting (well, not very much really) and do not want a debate.

I am curious about how this administration is going to handle the embarrassment of insufficient WMD. Clearly Bush was blind-sided, but does he take the Harry Truman "The buck stops here" approach or the Tiny Tim "Tiptoe through the Tulips" route?



To: Murrey Walker who wrote (60639)1/29/2004 12:02:20 PM
From: Jill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 65232
 
Murrey, I don't know whether abstract was baiting, but I know that I for one, and many of my friends and collegues, are very concerned about these issues, and sincerely so.

This country was founded on certain principles, and until the Iraq war we never "created" a war, we never did a first-strike. It was a turning point in our history, and the reason given was that Iraq had WMD they would use on us or give to terrorists to use on us.

If this is not the case, hard questions must be asked. Asked of intelligence and asked of the Bush administration. Kay's statements raise these questions and they need to be addressed, not ignored. Many Americans are very concerned about a $200 billion war and a rising deficit. That $200 billion could have been spent at home, on healthcare, for instance, which is a problem for most of America, including the middle and upper middle class, and especially the elderly.

I know that my political views, moderate to mildly left, are not popular on this board, but I sincerely hope there is open discussion in the days and months to come (in America, I mean). We have something precious to guard, and that is not to abuse our power simply because we are powerful.