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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: FaultLine who wrote (26932)1/29/2004 1:19:17 PM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793896
 
Everyone I knew in Vietnam wanted out ASAP and by hook or by crook, especially if one was one of the many who were against the war.

This is one of those "what goes around, comes around" things.

Kerry is the one who keeps bringing up his record of service in VietNam. So, it's fair game.

Especially because he's on record for sneering at Dubya for - heh, heh, getting out of pulling a complete tour of duty.

Gotcha?



To: FaultLine who wrote (26932)1/31/2004 4:46:13 AM
From: unclewest  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793896
 
Pretty thin gruel, uw. Quite a stretch for a number of unremarkable items.

The gruel is thick and the stretch is limp if you are well-informed.

It will take several posts but I will answer your questions. I have a very busy day planned with my son...so pardon if I don't get to all of it today.

Here is some background...I think it is important to look at Kerry's political record. As I noted before, I, personally, have no issues with his military service. It is his politics that irk me.

Your post was unusual in that you don't normally hold a poster personally responsible for the thoughts and writings of others that he copies and posts on the thread. So be it...I'll start with this:

The Washington Times
April 7, 2002

Commentary: FORUM section

Creeping genocide in Asia
I commend Michael Benge's Commentary Forum contribution (The Washington Times, Jan. 13, "Terrifying abuses in Vietnam") for highlighting the truth about Vietnam's treatment of the Montagnards.

The International Commission of Jurists has also concluded that the Vietnamese government is committing systematic persecution of these indigenous people (ICJ Report: Australian Section, July 2001) - namely through torture, killings, religious oppression and confiscation of ancestral lands.

It is disturbing however, to note attempts to downgrade Vietnam's unspeakable brutality (See: Forum, March 10, "True labeling or red-baiting," by Andrew Wells-Dang). Such reporting only serves to legitimize Vietnam's human rights abuses while prolonging the suffering of innocent Montagnards. Mr. Wells-Dang should be reminded that no country (communist or noncommunist) should be excused for human-rights abuses and that inside Vietnam's central highlands today, thousands of soldiers and security forces have brutally enforced martial law. While this persecution may not be classed as "international terrorism" in a "al Qaeda" context, I can assure him that a Christian Montagnard chained to the floor in an underground cell and paralyzed from electric shock torture, would still consider it an act of "terrorism".

There is evidence that not only are U.N. population funds being used for forced abortion in China (The Washington Times, Jan. 29, "Population fund at U.N. protested") but that these funds are being used by the Vietnamese communist government to eliminate the Montagnard hill tribes through "forced and coercive" sterilizations programs.

This is most disturbing given that "imposing measures to prevent births" is defined as a crime of genocide under the U.N. Convention on the Crime and Punishment of Genocide. The Montagnard Foundation has documented more than 1,000 cases of Montagnard women who were sterilized by the Vietnamese authorities through force, coercion, bribery, threats of fines or imprisonment. The total figure however, is unknown as the Montagnard's homelands remains under martial law and hidden from international scrutiny.

In July 2000, another lawyer and I questioned Eric Palstra, the Senior External Relations officer of the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) in Geneva on Vietnam's "sterilization policies." He confirmed the UNFPA and World Bank do indeed fund family planning programs in Vietnam, but nervously shifted all blame from the United Nations. His exact words concerning the sterilizations were "In Vietnam there is not always a trickle down effect of proper implementation." I asked if he knew whether Vietnam was targeting the Montagnards "specifically" and how U.N. monies for these procedures are monitored. On this he could not give me an answer.

On Aug. 8, 2001, I watched as the Vietnamese ambassador to the United Nations, Nguyen Quy Binh, faced the U.N. Committee for Elimination of Racial Discrimination. His response to questions of forced and coerced sterilizations was that the Vietnamese government offers "incentives and fines only" for sterilizations of Montagnard women. He denied these sterilizations are "forced." These "fines" and "incentives" are however, themselves nothing less than grave violations of the international standards regarding reproductive rights. The U.S. government even passed a law (Tiarhart Amendment), which prohibits the granting of U.S. monies to programs by countries conducting such violations of women's rights.

Montagnard women continue to recount that during 1996-2001 Vietnamese authorities entered their villages daily to round up women of childbearing age and forced, bribed and threatened them to undergo surgical sterilization. One woman sobbed when she told me how her sister died during the operation. In the early 1990s, the communist authorities conducted sterilizations using an acid chemical "quinicrine," in pellet form which, when inserted into the uterus, would dissolve and burn the uterus shut. The British Medical journal Lancet (1993, 342, July 24, pages 213-217) reported more than 31,000 women being sterilized in Vietnam by this method.

While it is unknown whether Vietnam still uses this "acid," it seems Hanoi has an agenda to lower the population of the Montagnards. Recently, Vietnam Minister Tran Thi Trung Chien stated that Vietnam intends to achieve a zero growth rate, especially in rural remote areas, by the year 2005 (Asia Pulse, "Vietnam plans target 0 percent population growth in rural areas by 2005," Dec, 27, 2001).

"Rural remote areas" is notably, where the Montagnards reside and, given Vietnam's escalating repression against them, this prospect of zero growth warrants urgent investigation. Sterilizations however, are just the tip of the iceberg of persecution confronting the Montagnards. Since 1975, the Vietnamese government has arrested, imprisoned and tortured them, while confiscating their ancestral lands and persecuting them for converting to Christianity. The revenge for the Vietnam War continues, for more than 40,000 Montagnards had once served as allies to the U.S. during that conflict.

Over the past year, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, two European Parliament Resolutions, various nongovernmental organizations, U.N. bodies, and U.S. members of Congress have condemned Vietnam's abuses of the Montagnards. The U.S. State Department and Human Rights Watch even reported how Montagnards were made to drink animal's blood while being forced to renounce their Christian beliefs. More than 1,000 Montagnards who have escaped into Cambodia now suffer an uncertain fate as they languish in emergency refugee camps set up by the United Nations. Vietnam has offered "bounties" for their capture, while both Vietnam and Cambodia have blatantly ignored international law and sold, beaten, kidnapped and arrested many fleeing refugees.

The situation is deplorable and full support should be given to the members of U.S. Congress who are appealing to President Bush to exercise his discretionary powers over funding destined for family planning programs by nations who violate women's rights.

In Vietnam's case, justice would also demand that all aid and trade benefits to Vietnam be halted immediately until persecution of the Montagnards ceases. I echo the words of Former Deputy Ambassador to the Republic of Vietnam, Wolf Lehman (The Washington Times, Jan. 30) "that Vietnam must address abuses." America's loyal allies from the Vietnam War must not be abandoned to continually face the revenge enacted by Hanoi. It is thus America's duty to now assist the Montagnards.

While President Bush and the State Department should be highly commended for the recent offer of asylum to the 1,000 Montagnard refugees who escaped to Cambodia, we must not forget the underlying problem inside Vietnam. Forced from their ancestral lands and allocated small plots to farm, the Montagnards continue to suffer malnutrition and poverty. If they voice a protest, they face torture, imprisonment or death.

Vietnam's intent becomes quite clear - it is practicing "creeping" genocide.

The lies and denials by Vietnam's official spokespeople on the Montagnard situation is criminal, as is Massachusetts Democratic Sen. John Kerry's refusal to permit the "Vietnam Human Rights Act" from being voted on in the U.S. Senate. What reason can Mr. Kerry have for holding a "human rights" bill from being voted on? Vietnam remains one of the worst violators of human rights in Asia and its reign of terror against the Montagnards must cease. In the name of humanity - the international community must act urgently and force Vietnam to end the persecution of these indigenous peoples.

SCOTT JOHNSON

International Commission of Jurists, West Australian Branch.



To: FaultLine who wrote (26932)1/31/2004 5:08:59 AM
From: unclewest  Respond to of 793896
 
Thomas Segal Aug 21, 2002 America's voices.org
"Human Rights advocates, Vietnamese immigrants and veterans who fought the long, hard war in Vietnam all charge political gamesmanship at their expense. Kerry, who chairs the Senate sub-committee on East Asian and Pacific Affairs has kept The Vietnam Human Rights Act bottled up and will not let it move on to the full Senate Foreign Relations Committee. This is the same human rights legislation that passed in the House of Representatives last September by a vote of 410 to 1."


If you would like to read the bill, it is HR-2833. With Kerry's refusal to allow the bill to be voted on, the level of imports from Vietnam has increased many times over. This raises another question, "Who benefits?". I have read reports that Kerry's wife is heavily invested in the Gap, a company that has moved its clothing production to Vietnam.

Here is another: I do not know who was to benefit from this one.
In the 2002 appropriations legislation for agriculture programs, signed by President Bush last month, Congress, with little debate, decreed that only catfish belonging to a biological genus native to North America be allowed such a label, effectively shutting Vietnamese fish out of this segment of the U.S. market only weeks after the two countries signed their first trade agreement (Washington Times, 12/28/01). However, on Dec. 18, advocates for communist Vietnam, Senators John McCain, Arizona Republican and John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, tried to pass an amendment to another bill that would have knocked the rule off the books, but they failed by a 68-23 margin. After the vote, Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi (a major catfish producing state) entertained his colleagues with catfish jokes replete with references to "bottom feeders," but It is unclear if Senator Lott was specifically referring to the fish or the Senators. Since Vietnam is making such a hue and cry over Agent Orange and the resulting dioxins, has anyone thought to check these "bottom feeders" (the fish that is) for dioxins?



To: FaultLine who wrote (26932)1/31/2004 5:42:13 AM
From: unclewest  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793896
 
A number of vets have published info about Kerry...As I have said repeatedly, I do not question his military service. I do know award citations may not be 100% accurate since one of my own valor decorations contains a factual error. I do believe Kerry's service was honorable and some of it was heroic.

The Veteran issues, surrounding Kerry today, that interest me are related to his politics and political motivations.

If Kerry is a foe of oppression, he has some explaining to do...He won't because his votes are imo based on financial considerations not human rights.

Human Rights Watch has thoroughly documented the gross human abuses in Vietnam and Cambodia. These are not old stories. I have met several of their American, Japanese and Australian folks over the past two years (when they escorted refugees to the US). They live in Vietnam and Cambodia. They are very well informed and publish extensively about the pattern of current Vitnamese Human abuses; the sweatshops operated by US Companies; child labor; The recent closing of 400 Christian Churches in the central highlands from Ban Me Thuot to Pleiku to Kontum; the slaughter of Montagnards and their families for one of two reasons...supporting the US during the war and/or practicing Christianity. I have had frequent contact with Mike Benge who spent 11 years in the highlands including five as a POW. Mike is well known as a diligent researcher...He is well published and has spoken numerous times before congress and the UN.
Mike has thoroughly documented Kerry's refusal to allow the senate to consider (never mind condemn) the on-going human rights abuses in Vietnam.

Kerry has never responded to any of this and never confronted Benge...He has threatened to sue some of the publications printing Benge's material, but has never done so.

Here is a link to Human Rights Watch...a little digging at this site will uncover huge quantities of data documenting Vietnamese human rights violations.

hrw.org

Remember the Vet issue here is that Kerry refused to allow the Senate to consider this material.

I know all three of the individuals who wrote the following...Of course the bi lateral trade agreement was passed...There was no opposition in the senate.

greenberet.net
uw



To: FaultLine who wrote (26932)2/3/2004 8:43:28 PM
From: unclewest  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 793896
 
FL,
Don't forget to let us know about Kerry's response to your e-mail.

The following is an e-mail I received today from Mark Smith. I have known Mark for well over 30 years. We attended the 9 month Infantry Officer Advanced Course at the same time...though he was a class ahead or behind...I don't recall which. Mark was limping then because he had been shot in the foot prior to his capture.

Mark is one of the most combat experienced officers we have ever had...He is a prince of a man. Everyone who gets to know Mark loves him. He may be more highly decorated than Hackworth...but you will never hear it from him. Like Hack, he does have the Distinguished Service Cross and a big chest full of other valorous decorations.

But Mark got his as an LT and CPT not as a Colonel. He was a POW with one very very very good buddy of mine who was awarded the MOH. My other buddy speaks only praise. Mark spent many many years in Southeast Asia working the problem after the US Army left...He was there during the refugee resettlement SFA supported for the past two years. We exchanged a lot of info and e-mails over the past two years...and got excited about finding each other again.

During the first Montagnard resettlement in 1983, Mark was working for another agency...and we hooked up again then. I was the SF connection them too.

I know Mark, I have worked and studied with Mark, I have close friends who nearly died with Mark...Mark is real...and really a hero of the first order. This man is a no-bull-shit guy who only tells it like it is. You can believe every word of what he writes.

This e-mail was not forwarded to me..I received it directly from Mark. The only things I have deleted from the original are his current address and phone number.

unclewest

Mark A. Smith
Major, USA, Retired, Returned Prisoner of War

WHO IS JOHN KERRY?

"John Kerry Vietnam War hero." Everyday the media tiptoes around John Kerry as if he is an icon of service to the Nation. But why is his service to the nation in war not balanced against his return to longhaired freakdom to march against his fellow veterans still in the war, including myself? I was especially incensed when my communist captors quoted him in propaganda.

I had a discussion with Senator Kerry in Bangkok Thailand. He made some surprising statements during that exchange. He stated emphatically that I should provide him with any information I had on missing Americans. This he stated he would take to Hanoi to discuss with the Communists. He didn't seem to understand the Communists knew where the POWs were and needed no help from him to "find them." Expert on war? Hardly! He then stated that no matter what I had there would be no military operation to rescue them. In other words, Senator Kerry felt that Americans were worth talking about, but not worth fighting for.

Kerry brought up his service on patrol boats in Vietnam in a very defensive way with me, "you weren't the only one in that war, I was on those patrol boats?" My answerer "surely you are not attempting to compare anything you did in that war to my contribution to that endeavor!" I did not say that to belittle the Senator, but to only give him a reality check. He said he had an important appointment. The insinuation was it dealt with the MIAs. Then a small child came up to us and said, "my Mom said it is time to go." Kerry sheepishly moved away. "All show and no go," just another paper thin ego.

I was invited to lunch by his staffer Francis. She stated in an adoring manner that John Kerry would some day be the President of the United States. My answer was short and succinct,” Based on what?" She said, "He's a war hero." I said, "but he then marched in a filthy uniform and threw his medals over the White House fence." She then told me the medals were someone else's. I merely stated it showed disrespect to honors received on the battlefield by "Someone." End of discussion on that.

Someone in the Asian customs stated a rumor that Senator Kerry purchased a tiger skin in Vietnam and officials were told to ignore it. Somehow Vietnam Veterans got the story and as far as I know, there has never been a denial from the great "environmentalist" John Kerry. But true or not it gives a good look at how Kerry operates. Take the "war hero" the next. Take the "Champion of MIAs" one day and the "we aren't going to war for them" the next day and you have John Kerry.

Senator Kerry threatened to order me before his committee unless I gave him intelligence to carry to Hanoi. My answer? "you do not have to order me before your committee, I'll be there." I waited but, when I called Francis and said I was in America and ready to put the record straight on the rumor about Ross Perot being spread by committee staff, she said." I'm sorry Mark we have run out of money to bring you here." I said; "I have miles to burn and will pay my own way." She said she would discuss it with Kerry and get back to me. I never heard from her or the "War Hero" again. Vietnam Veterans beware. The best way to describe John Kerry's attempts to be all things to all people is, "Heinz 57."

There has been much sniping at President Bush for being a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard. Liberals who seem to believe September Eleventh was somehow our fault and most surely the President's, laugh at his flying to an aircraft carrier to welcome home U.S. Troops. They said he looked silly dressed as a pilot. No candidate for President had more right to dress like that, than George Bush; he is a fighter pilot. Where were these people, when the draft dodging Clinton wore a "Tanker Jacket" when visiting the troops? A part of a uniform he evaded wearing in time of war. I hope Kerry does not show up to see the troops, if elected, in the ragged field jacket and head ban, he wore in the peace marches. When time to honor a battlefield hero, I hope he does not have a "flashback" and throw our Nation's highest award over the White House fence. After all, he does think throwing other people's medals over that fence is all right.

Lastly, as Guard and Reserve Troops fight and die for our freedom, I don't want any Commander In Chief who would think their service a joke. Further, if the big time Vietnam Veteran Kerry knew a thing about the Vietnam War, other than how deep the river was, he would know Guard and Reserve Pilots regularly flew combat missions in Vietnam. I for one appreciated the support.

"War Hero?" O.K., he received the Silver Star. But, "Expert" on war? No John, but those of us who are, will take the honest leadership of President Bush anytime over you. You have not changed a bit from the time of the Vietnam War. Your wet finger is still in the air checking the political winds, before making any decision or changing one already made. We are at war and I know war. Your brand of equivocation on every issue costs lives in a war and I don't want more dead and wounded here and abroad. You went to war and then marched against it and those of us who still fought. I know you as "Springtime Patriot" and then as a "Winter Soldier." People should look up what you said during your "Winter Soldier" days. You voted for the present war and now you condemn it. You may be an Ivy League graduate, but, your war record is minor league and your leadership is straight out of the "Waffle House." If being President is going to be based on medals earned in battle, there are a whole lot of us in front of you, John Kerry. There is one last thing that places all of your fellow veterans ahead of you in the honor department, with the exception of a few of your fellow "Winter Solders." We had too much respect for our fellow warriors, who fell on the field of battle, to throw even our lowest award over the White House fence. If you keep running on the "warrior ticket," you will lose sailor! For on that ticket, you are who you have always been.......NOBODY.

Mark A. Smith - DSC
Major, USA, Retired
Member, The Legion of Valor
Returned Prisoner of War