I saw this interview with Kay and that guy is impressive..
The full interview is posted after the bold... It's no wonder the poor dems are in a hissyfit over Kay. LOL it's one where they cannot let on as he is so believable.....
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us any explanation why these agencies in retrospect appear to have had it right, and the information that the administration used appeared to have it wrong?
KAY: It's a lot easier after the fact and after you know the truth to be so lucky that you were right.
JOHN: Also helpful to the White House, Kay said there was no attempt to pressure intelligence analysts to reach certain policy conclusions.
KAY: Almost in a perverse way, I wish it had been undue influence because we know how to correct that. We get rid of the people who, in fact, were exercising that.
cnn.com
David Kay's assessment was straightforward on the intelligence that led the U.S. to war.
KAY: I deeply think that is a wrong explanation.
JOHNS: Kay predicted that try as they might, inspectors who remain on the job searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq probably won't find much.
KAY: That it is highly unlikely that there were large stockpiles of deployed militarized chemical and biological weapons there. JOHNS: Still the hearing was frustrating for the Democrats who came prepared to rake the administration over the coals. Kay refused to play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us any explanation why these agencies in retrospect appear to have had it right, and the information that the administration used appeared to have it wrong?
KAY: It's a lot easier after the fact and after you know the truth to be so lucky that you were right.
JOHN: Also helpful to the White House, Kay said there was no attempt to pressure intelligence analysts to reach certain policy conclusions.
KAY: Almost in a perverse way, I wish it had been undue influence because we know how to correct that. We get rid of the people who, in fact, were exercising that.
JOHNS: The committee's top Democrat, Carl Levin called for an outside investigation of the quality of the intelligence and the way it was used to make the case for war. Levin got an important ally in Republican Senator John McCain, who decided to support an outside probe after raising the issue with Kay.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Do you believe that we need an independent, outside investigation?
JOHNS: Kay suggested it's almost inevitable in order to ensure the quality of future intelligence.
KAY: You will finally determine, that it is going to take an outside inquiry, both to do it and to give yourself and the American people the competence that you have done it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Kay made clear distinctions between policy and intelligence. While critical of the intelligence, in his view, the intelligence essentially led him to believe that Saddam Hussein did eventually need to be removed from power. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Joe Johns, on Capitol Hill. Thank you.
The British Prime Minister Tony Blair could have faced the end of his career over the same issue, but he was vindicated today of allegations he exaggerated pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons.
A British judge exonerated Blair and his administration in the suicide of David Kelly. He was an expert on Iraqi weapons who killed himself after being revealed as the source for a BBC report that accused Mr. Blair of, quote, "sexing up a dossier," making the case for war with Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The allegations that I or anyone else lied to this house or deliberately misled the country by falsifying intelligence on weapons of mass destruction is itself the real lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The judge did fault the BBC for airing the report which he called unfounded, leading the network's chairman to resign.
Here's your turn to weigh in on this important story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: do you believe coalition forces will find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? You can vote right now, go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.
What went wrong in the search for those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAY: I regret to say that I think at the end of the work of the ISG, there are still going to be an unresolvable ambiguity about what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: David Kay, the chief former weapons hunter, joins me straight from his testimony on Capitol Hill. He'll be here live.
Democrats the day after the New Hampshire, the winners and losers gearing up for the next big battle.
Plus, we knew about box cutters. Now details of the other weapons the 9/11 hijackers were carrying. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: With the fight for New Hampshire over, the Democratic presidential contenders with Senator John Kerry at the head of the pack are gearing up for Tuesday's first national contest.
At stake, five states holding primaries, Arizona, Missouri, Delaware, Oklahoma and South Carolina. And New Mexico and North Dakota hold caucuses. Those seven states bring with them a total of 269 delegates.
Kerry left New Hampshire today after his big win over rivals Howard Dean, Wesley Clark and Senators John Edwards and Joe Lieberman. First stop, Missouri. With 74 delegates it's the biggest prize up for grabs Tuesday. From there he heads to the key primary state of South Carolina.
Next Tuesday's primary in South Carolina will be the first one in the south, and that's where native son, Senator John Edwards is today. And with him, our national correspondent Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John Kerry will be arriving here in South Carolina tonight with momentum, something Democratic operatives say may be even more important than the face to face familiarity that voters in South Carolina here in South Carolina are used to.
That could be bad news for Senator John Edwards who today kicked off his run toward February 3 with a visit to South Carolina, the state in which he was born. He said that he must win here to continue.
He kicked off his campaign at South Carolina State University a predominantly African-American university. That underscores the importance of the African-American vote here. South Carolina is the first test of the candidates among a sizable group of black voters. Up to half of the voters will be black on primary day here.
It is also the first test in the South for the candidates. Front runner John Kerry says that in the general election that a Democrat doesn't need to win any states to win the general election.
Today, I asked John Edwards if he agrees with that assessment.
EDWARDS: I think that if the Democrats and Democratic voters want to put their chances on for the first time in American history, a Democrat getting elected without winning any Southern states, they can make that choice. It's a very risky choice.
BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, Columbia, South Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Back in his home state Vermont, the battle cry from Howard Dean today is full speed ahead, despite a second place finish in New Hampshire. Dean says he's going to try to get as many delegates as he can everywhere.
Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is standing by with the Dean campaign in Burlington. Candy, I understand there's been somewhat of a shake-up there?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: A shake-up still ongoing. Last I checked with the Dean headquarters there was a staff meeting going on.
Here's what we know. Sources tell CNN's John King and myself that Roy Neel, who was former chief of staff for Al Gore in a variety of capacities, is going to come aboard the Dean campaign as the chief operating officer.
That is not the same title as Joe Trippi. Joe Trippi, of course, is the Internet guru, the man who took Howard Dean from an asterisk up to the head of the polls and the of course back again.
We have not been able to confirm -- there have been reports that Trippi is out. But we did ask the governor about that -- about specifically about staff change, when we saw him just a little bit him earlier today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DEAN: There's not going to be any changes in my staff today.
QUESTION: Are there going to be any changes in coming days?
DEAN: I'm not asking anybody to leave. There may be some additions, but nobody's leaving. At least I hope they're not leaving...
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: So as you can see what we learned was no staff changes today which says little about tomorrow. And that the governor is not asking anyone to leave.
So the big question out there is whether Joe Trippi will stay, bringing in Roy Neel.
Again, it was a Gore operative, you remember, Wolf, that in fact Al Gore early on was the biggest headliner that endorsed Howard Dean. Since that endorsement it has been down hill for the Dean campaign both in Iowa and New Hampshire.
A restructuring going on even as the staff still tries to figure out how they'll approach next Tuesday in the seven state primaries -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Candy Crowley, with that information. Candy, thank you very much.
As for the rest of the Democratic candidates, it's back to the trail in the fierce hunt for vote next Tuesday, including one we haven't heard from much lately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (voice-over): A third place finish in New Hampshire, his first-ever election campaign isn't slowing down Wesley Clark. With seven more contests now just six days away, he's wasting no time spreading his message.
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We want to bring a higher standard of leadership to America. That's why I'm running to be president.
BLITZER: Today, Clark is make stops in Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Arizona. The Joementum (ph) might have stalled in New Hampshire but it's onward to Tuesday. Today Joe Lieberman rallied the voters before speaking at a National Health Policy forum at the University of Oklahoma. Also speaking at the forum, Congressman Dennis Kucinich who got only 1 percent of the New Hampshire vote. Later tonight he'll attend a fund-raising concert in Oklahoma city.
The reverend returns. After a recent absence from the campaign trail, Al Sharpton is back.
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush did not win the popular vote. So as pundits talk about can George Bush defeat? He already was beaten.
BLITZER: Today, he rallies in Missouri, a political hotspot since favorite son Richard Gephardt withdrew. And getting a boost in South Carolina, Johnnie Cochran hits the airwaves today in support, with a new radio ad.
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There's one candidate for president who is fighting to keep Dr. King's dream alive. Reverend Al Sharpton.
BLITZER: And that's our look at the rest of the 2004 presidential candidates on the trail.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Marching on with big expectations. Several candidates hungry for a win. What will it take for them to get a "W"? I'll talk politics and more with the veteran journalist, Sam Donaldson.
The final minutes aboard American Airlines flight 11. New details revealed about the weapons used by the 9/11 hijackers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAY: It turns out we were all wrong at time of the Cuban missile crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The man in charge of looking for them tells all on Capitol Hill. And now he'll join me live. I'll speak with David Kay. That's straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There are new questions about U.S. security precautions before 9/11. They come after a federal commission on terrorism, heard a tape description of one of the 9/11 hijackings from a flight attendant who was aboard one of the planes that slammed into the World Trade Center. CNN's Jennifer Coggiola is with me here. She's got details -- Jennifer.
JENNIFER COGGIOLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, yesterday we heard some testimony with updated evidence to help determine what exactly happened that morning and it was culminated with one traumatic phone call. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETTY ONG: Ok, my name is Betty Ong.
COGGIOLA (voice-over): A dramatic voice brought back to life.
ONG: There's somebody stabbed in business class and we can't breathe in business class. Somebody's got mace or something.
COGGIOLA: But lost in the voice of flight attendant Betty Ong, details about weapons used by the terrorist. Among the items discussed at the hearing, mace and/or pepper spray, as well as the now well-known box cutters which airlines and the federal aviation administration had long maintained were not specifically prohibited. Although an airline industry guide presented to the commission did list them as banned items. Commissioners also examined four-inch knives which they say also could have been used in the hijackings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the guidelines as we understand them that existed on 9/11, if such a knife were discovered in the possession of an individual who alarmed either the walk-through metal detector or the hand wand, the item would be returned to the owner.
COGGIOLA: Also Tuesday, Commissioner John Lehman questioned what he called negligence by the government for not checking the names of passengers against the FBI's terrorist watch list.
JOHN F. LEHMAN, COMMISSIONER: Of course, a young Arab should not be allowed on airplanes with four-inch blades, yet none of you applied common sense.
COGGIOLA: A security official replied that the intelligence committee provided them with information only that was relevant to aviation security, and that even today not all suspected terrorists are put on the watch list.
CLAUDIO MANNO, ASST. ADMIN. FOR INTELLIGENCE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMIN.: It depends what group you're associated with, and what other information there is. As an example.
LEHMAN: I find that to be an incredible answer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COGGIOLA: Of the 60 families of those who died on planes on September 11 that are currently involved in litigation, one we spoke with today said that these findings strengthen his case. The airlines have continued to argue that they are not liable -- Wolf.
BLITZER: A lot more shock details. I'm sure more are about to come out. Thank you very much for that report.
Empty-handed, David Kay returns from Iraq with no signs of weapons of mass destruction. Did they exist at all? Was the intelligence flawed, and are there weapons yet to be found? We'll explore all of these questions, much more, when David Kay joins me live. That's coming up next.
Presidential primaries two contests down, but many, many, many more to go. What can we expect in the coming weeks? I'll ask ABC radio news host, Sam Donaldson.
High hopes. A pair of Japanese balloonists attempts a record for their country. The pictures and their stories coming up later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
"Unresolved ambiguity," words by the former top weapons hunter in describing the search for weapons of mass destruction inside Iraq. David Kay joins me live. That's coming up next.
First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
Fifteen years after the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska, ExxonMobil faces a huge payout to victims of the spill. A federal judge in Anchorage today ordered ExxonMobil to pay almost $7 billion in damages. The money would go to thousands of fishermen, Alaska natives and others affected by the 11-million gallon spill in Prince William Sound. The company has 30 days to appeal.
Soul singer James Brown is in trouble with the law again. He was arrested today in his home state of South Carolina and charged with criminal domestic violence. The godfather of soul served a 2 1/2-year prison term after a 1988 arrest on drug and assault charges. And six years ago, he was convicted of a drug-related offense.
After bracing for the worst, much of New England is breathing a sigh of relief after a big snowstorm fizzled out before causing serious problems. But parts of the Northeast did get a major snowfall overnight, among them, New York City. We can see right here, up to eight inches fell on parts of the Big Apple and more than a foot on one area of Long Island.
"We were all wrong," those chilling words how the former chief U.S. weapons inspector put it to a Senate committee earlier today. David Kay conceded that the hunt for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction simply has come up empty. So what went wrong?
David Kay joining us now live.
David Kay, thanks very much for joining us.
What went wrong? How could the U.S. intelligence community have been so wrong on such a critical issue?
DAVID KAY, FORMER CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think that's the question that we must have answers to now.
I suspect that it's not going to be an easy, simple answer. It's not going to be, someone applied pressure. It's going relate to how we collect intelligence and how we analyze it. And we ought to remember, this is the first in only the latest in a series of areas where we have proved wrong just in the proliferation area, in the case of Iran and Libya in the last three months far different than the estimates. And, in those cases, they had far more advanced programs than we estimated.
BLITZER: Among the experts, the so-called experts, going into the war, there was no doubt there were stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. Forget about the nuclear, for the time being. There's a little bit more ambiguity about that. But as far as chemical and biological weapons, you had no doubt, did you?
KAY: I had no doubt.
And not only American experts. That was the general view of the intelligence communities around the world, including people who did not support us in the Security Council in terms of military action.
BLITZER: I was in Kuwait. And I remember tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops putting on gear to protect themselves from the chemical weapons.
KAY: It's quite clear the military believed they would be subjected to chemical attack. You don't wear those suits lightly.
BLITZER: So when the Iraqis said, in the months leading up to the war, they had no weapons of mass destruction, were they telling the truth?
KAY: I think the best evidence is now they were telling the truth.
They had weapons programs. And they had prohibited activities they had not declared or reported to the U.N. But with regard to large stockpiles of weapons, the best evidence is, they simply didn't exist at the time of OIF, Operation Iraqi Freedom.
BLITZER: And the point is that even the international inspectors who had gone in from all of the various agencies, they didn't believe the Iraqis at all?
KAY: That's right.
In fact, the Iraqis would tell me that, you know, we started an era when they dealt with -- they would say, with me personally in 1991, when they started lying and cheating. And they really continued it clearly up to 1995. And they said, we kept saying, if we do this, ultimately, no one will believe anything we said. Their answer is -- turned out to be true.
BLITZER: We know that, in the '80s, they did have chemical weapons. They killed thousands of Kurds and Shia throughout Iraq. There is no doubt about that.
KAY: And thousands of Iranians in the Iran/Iraq war, where they first used it. Yes, there's no doubt they had those weapons at one time. BLITZER: So, at this point -- and you're an expert on this -- at what point did they destroy or hide or conceal or remove or transfer or whatever they did their stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons?
KAY: I think the best evidence is, they actually started the reduction, not the complete elimination, of those stockpiles in '91 and '92, as the inspection program continued, to try to produce a smaller target that we wouldn't find, and keep it small.
I think, by 1995, you will recall the two son-in-laws -- Hussein Kamel, the leader who defected. Once they defected, they were afraid he was going to spill the location of everything. And I think they rushed the destruction at that period.
BLITZER: In 1998, when Bill Clinton was still in the White House -- I was covering the White House in those days -- they had no doubt whatsoever that there were stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction inside Iraq.
KAY: That's right. And I think that's the best evidence of a systemic problem, as opposed to pressure from one political party or the other to
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Well, this is a very important issue, because a lot of Democrats, Democratic presidential candidates, members of the committee, the Senate Armed Services Committee -- you testified before them today -- they believe that the career professionals in the intelligence community, the military, the DIA, the CIA, they believe they were pressured by Vice President Dick Cheney, by Donald Rumsfeld, by the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, the president himself, to come up with evidence that simply didn't exist.
KAY: Wolf, no evidence of that. I had a team composed of career professionals who would have come to me. They came to me instead with the frustration at how they had been wrong. They had the opportunity to blame it on someone else. They didn't. They accepted the responsibility.
They had misinterpreted the evidence that was available to them. It's more serious than simply political slanting. That didn't take place.
BLITZER: And so you don't believe that there was political pressure on the intelligence community from the vice president or anyone else in the Bush administration to sort of tailor their bottom- line intelligence estimates?
KAY: I saw absolutely no evidence of that among the professionals that were working for me that they had ever been subjected to that.
BLITZER: So, if there was no pressure to tailor their bottom line, it sounds like an intelligence blunder that George Tenet, the director of central intelligence, an intelligence blunder of enormous magnitude.
KAY: I think it's a systemic problem that goes to -- underlies the whole basis of our collecting intelligence. I think, first of all, it's a lack of human intelligence resources in a country like Iraq. So, we depended on others. And we're paying the price for it.
BLITZER: You said in your testimony today -- and I listened to all those hours and hours and hours of your testimony -- that the U.S. intelligence community was trying to find information, and you used the words "on the cheap." I believe the intelligence community's budget is about $30 billion. On the cheap is not something that I would associate with $30 billion.
KAY: Well, Wolf, if either of us had access to that classified number and its breakdown, I think you would find that most of that is spent on technical intelligence gathering.
The only cheap part is related to investment in individuals. I can tell you, the number of people, case officers, clandestine officers, who speak Arabic is smaller than the audience in that room today while I was testifying for those six hours.
BLITZER: There were about 100 people in that room.
KAY: There were about 100 people.
BLITZER: And are you saying, in the entire U.S. government, there are less than 100 Arabic-speaking intelligence officers?
KAY: Of clandestine officers, as opposed to experts. There are probably more if you count the subject-matter experts that always remain at home. It's a very small number.
We have not invested in human intelligence gathering capability. And this really goes back, quite frankly, to the Carter administration, as we worked our way through the Church Committee and all the revelations about Vietnam, and we decided it was politically safer to rely on technology.
BLITZER: David Kay, I'm going to ask you to stand by. We have much more to discuss on this critically important issue, weapons of mass destruction.
Just ahead, more of our interview with David Kay on the weapons search in Iraq.
And later the Democratic presidential candidates are heading into the next round of primaries and caucuses, but who really has a chance to win? We'll ask the veteran journalist Sam Donaldson. He's standing by.
And hi-ho, rover. We'll learn what's behind this display of monkey business.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): New bloodshed in Iraq. A car blew up this morning as it drove past a hotel in southern Baghdad, killing the driver and two bystanders. An investigation is under way.
Shattered peace. An explosion in Kabul, Afghanistan, killed a British soldier and wounded four other soldiers. The victims are part of the NATO-led peacekeeping force in Afghanistan. The explosion happened outside a British base.
Deadly raid. Israeli forces shot and killed eight Palestinians in a raid in Gaza City, that word from Palestinian security and medical sources. They say at least three members of Islamic Jihad were among those killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public needs to be told.
BLITZER: Battling bird flu. Officials and experts from more than a dozen countries held an emergency meeting in Thailand in a bid to stop the spread of the deadly disease. Bird flu has killed at least two people in Thailand and eight in Vietnam. Thailand's prime minister denies his government has tried to cover up the outbreak in a bid to protect the country's poultry industry.
Up, up and away. A Japanese balloonist and a companion are trying to become the first people from their country to cross the Pacific Ocean in a hot air balloon. The pair took off from north of Tokyo this morning. They hope to cross the Pacific in about 60 hours and land in North America.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's turn once again to the hunt for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. I'm joined once again by Dr. David Kay, the man who, until recently, led that hunt.
Unfortunately, I guess that hunt never materialized, from your perspective. You had access over these nine months, when you led the hunt, to everything in Iraq, Dr. al-Sadi, the chief scientist of the Iraqi regime, the so-called Dr. Germ. You spoke to all of them?
KAY: We did, although, I would say, Wolf, it dead lead to something. We were after the truth. I think we are much closer to understanding the truth today because of that hunt, because of that access than we were in March and April.
BLITZER: Is it possible the Iraqis transferred their chemical and biological weapons to a neighboring country to get rid of them?
KAY: Look, that's a possibility we examined, because we know a lot of things moved, although we don't know what moved. We try to answer that question by going back and saying, did they have the production capability that would have produced it? If they didn't have it, they didn't move it. My conclusion is, there's no sign that they had the production, ongoing capacity, and were producing large amounts of WMDs.
BLITZER: So you don't believe they're being hidden in Syria, let's say?
KAY: I don't believe large numbers. It's perfectly possible that technology documentation and even small amounts might well be hidden in Syria.
BLITZER: The man who is replacing you, Charles Duelfer, is a good man. He knows the subject quite well. Is it possible, when the dust settles, do you think, months from now, a year from now, he'll find weapons of mass destruction?
KAY: Actually, I hope so. And I have the highest regard for Charles Duelfer. The thing is, he is on the record essentially saying the same thing I said, that he doubts that there will be major discoveries.
BLITZER: When all is said and done, though, when you look at situation, was it still worth going to war and removing Saddam Hussein from power?
KAY: Absolutely, and I think not just for the Iraqis, which is clearest. I think the world is far safer.
I actually believe that Saddam and Iraq were becoming more dangerous to us, not less dangerous. It was a society that was breaking up. Yet, it was a stockpile of scientists and technology and actual equipment for producing WMD, while we're in a world where terrorists and others are seeking those weapons. They would have acquired it.
BLITZER: Did you come across evidence, a very controversial subject, of a link, an alleged link, between al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden's organization, and Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime?
KAY: We collected evidence about WMD. Occasionally, in that collection, we would collect evidence of terrorism. But I passed that off to others who were leading that hunt.
We collected no evidence that would have tied al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden to WMD. But there clearly were terrorist groups passing through and operating in Iraq.
BLITZER: David Kay, you spent nine months in Iraq. You risked your life for the American people. Thanks very much for joining us.
KAY: Thank you, Wolf. Happy to have been here.
BLITZER: Appreciate it. It's raining candidates. The top Democratic hopefuls fan out across the nation in the seven states that could decide their political fate. A look at who's likely to finish on top. I'll speak live with the veteran journalist Sam Donaldson. He's my next guest. |
