SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: greenspirit who wrote (124095)1/31/2004 9:33:13 PM
From: Jacob Snyder  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
re: The Mind of Our Enemies:

<We are reminded daily not of the birth of the first consensual government in the history of the Arab world, but...>

To call the present Iraqi government "consensual" is Orwellian. It was appointed by conquering foreigners. The "Governing" Council will exist as long as foreign soldiers prop it up, and not a day longer. The members of the "Governing" Council live in fortified areas, protected from their fellow Iraqis by American guns.

<The sanctuaries and patrons of murderers, suicide bombers, and terrorists are shrinking...>

Before the American Empire swallowed up two more nations since 9/11, the daily news told of suicide bombs only in Palestine. Now, it happens daily in Iraq and Afghanistan also.

<Autocracies like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria are terrified of consensual government>

Yes. And the first step in creating a truly consensual government, is seceding from the American Empire. Iran seceded 20 years ago. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan look wobbly. When the U.S. army violates Pakistani soil, invading the Taliban sanctuaries in Pakistan, as we must do to have any hope of defeating the Taliban, there will likely be an Islamic revolt there. Iran is, today, further along the road to democracy than any of the longterm U.S. client states (=colonies in all but name) surrounding it. They hold elections in Iran, unlike Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

<return to the old appeasement>

Already happened. Look at recent policy re N. Korea and Taiwan. Even NeoCons can learn the limits of American power.

<For the Islamicists' muddled vision of some theocratic caliphate run on Dark-Age principles to succeed...>

Sistani can fill the streets with demonstrators, with a word. How many can Chalabi put in the streets? I haven't read about any pro-Bin Laden, or pro-Saddam demonstrations either. Sistani wants Iraqis to run Iraq, democratic elections, and separation of mosque and state. Sistani wants the same thing for Iraq, that Jefferson wanted for the U.S. in 1776.

<another September 11?>

This is getting old. Evoking 9/11, to scare the American people into supporting every adventure the NeoCons can dream up, won't work any longer. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice...

<We must put more ostensible political responsibility even more rapidly into the hands of Iraqis >

Ostensible? I think he means, the illusion of self-government needs to be a bit more realistic, to be credible. As examples, he gives: holding press conferences. He wants better PR, but he doesn't want the reality of power. In particular, he doesn't want elections, and he doesn't want the oil or the army or the central government to be run by Iraqis. Real power, he insists must remain in American hands, indefinitely.

<two-thirds of the country is progressing well >

Only because the Shiites have been waiting patiently for us to fulfill our promises about "Iraq for Iraqis" and elections. But they are getting impatient. Time's up. Sistani has served notice, he won't settle for anything but "the consent of the governed": real elections, real power.

<if a method can be found for direct elections, coupled with constitutional protections of minority rights, such populism is not necessarily fatal to our cause>

Wow. Not exactly enthusiastic about democracy, is he? Basically, he's willing to hold elections, as long as we win them. As long as they are properly "managed", so a "responsible" regime results. That was Stalin's attitude towards elections, too.

<we, in turn, can promote and fund dissident groups>

We can organize, fund, train, arm, and create safe havens for terrorist groups to destabilize governments all over the world. Since they are our terrorists, we'll call them "dissident groups" and "freedom fighters". Maybe get some of those old and experienced Contras, to teach the techniques.

<what amazes is not that we made errors, or major blunders even>

In the last few months, in the writings of apologists for Empire such as this, I smell a whiff of humility. 6 months ago, it was all triumphant jingoism. Never admit anyone ever made any mistakes. The tone has changed. Next, they'll be assigning blame for their defeat and withdrawal under fire.

<the monotonous negativism of National Public Radio>

There is nothing more negative than championing killing as the solution to all problems. And that is what the NeoCons have been doing.

<Finally, there is a rarely discussed moral question here.>

What is there about Thou Shalt Not Kill, that is so hard to understand?



To: greenspirit who wrote (124095)1/31/2004 11:38:26 PM
From: Sam  Respond to of 281500
 
Michael, Hanson is a very eloquent guy. But he is what I suppose what could be called a "faux realist." He pretends, for example, to recognize US "sins of the past" when he says things like, "If it was wrong and cynical to have left the Afghans to the mercy of once useful Islamic fundamentalists after the expulsion of the Soviets in the 1980s, it is right and humane now to stay and help after defeating those who further ruined Afghanistan." and "If it was calculating and shortsighted not to have helped the Kurds and Shiites after the conclusion of the Gulf War in 1991, it is moral and visionary now to rectify that lapse and invest our most precious resources to set the ledger straight with them both." But he dismisses with his silence earlier sins in the region ranging from the 1954 Iranian coup and subsequent events there to the 1980s Reagan admin Iran-Contra strategy of simultaneously arming both Iran and Iraq in an attempt to get them to essentially do as much damage to each other as possible. It seemed like a pretty neat strategy at the time--but perhaps you might understand why people who lived through that hell might not feel too warmly toward the US if they think about it too much.

Unlike most hawks, he does make an attempt to address the danger of civil war. "To this end, we can remind the Iraqi nation that all three of its constituencies — the Kurds, the Sunnis, and the Shiite majority — have responsibilities to prevent one another from resurrecting tyranny." Get a balance of power in the country. Let's be rational, guys, he says. Well, that sounds nice--to us. It is the kind of "reaching, hoping" reasoning that Hanson's friends employed when they got the Turks to agree to send troops to Iraq, only to have the IGC reject them. What a surprise. Anyone who knows anything about Iraqi history--who has thought about it for longer than 10 minutes--would have known that bringing Turkish troops into Iraq would be anethema to many segments of Iraqi society--not to all Iraqis, to be sure, but a majority.

He berates the "ossified left" again and again, but his arguments are largely straw men, taken out of context or phrased in silly ways. I'm sure some people phrased arguments in silly ways, but there were and are cogent arguments against the whole enterprise as well. He claims that "we are winning a difficult peace." I don't believe we are winning much of anything in either Iraq or Afghanistan. See hrw.org for reports from Human Rights Watch on Afghanistan, as well as the article I just posted from the NYRB. See "Today in Iraq" at dailywarnews.blogspot.com for daily Iraq news (although "YankeeDoodle is away for a week or so now, so it won't be updated for a few days now).

I call Hanson a "faux realist" because he, like so many in the Bush admin, pretend they are oh so tough by using force--but fail to recognize the complexities intrinsic to the countries they are using force on, complexities which make it so difficult to achieve the ends that they claim to be upholding that they absolutely require broad and deep international cooperation if they are to have any chance at all of success. But the Bush admin failed to achieve that cooperation for a simple reason--they were focused on winning the '02 election first and foremost, far more than they are focused on truly achieving their stated goals. This is what most of the world believes, and it is what I, unhappily, believe as well. If it were otherwise, they would not have done what they did in the way they did it.