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To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (16526)	2/2/2004 2:54:53 PM
From: Tradelite	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

Wonder whether the apparent decline in wages and salaries has anything to do with the fact that many of the layoffs we've been hearing about involve the older, higher-paid workers, many of whom just take early retirement. Have recently seen stories about job cuts at certain companies in which early-out incentives have been offered to workers. In government, these early-out incentives have been used for years to trim payrolls and get rid of the higher-paid workers who are already at or near retirement age. This leaves the employer with a more affordable, lower-paid workforce.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (16526)	2/3/2004 1:16:32 AM
From: GraceZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

Grace the thing about welfare is that many who are against it have a real objection to the cost more than anything. In other words welfare is the easiest target to balance the budget without hurting the wealthy. What does that have to do with the fact that it is terrible for the people who get it? It's like you are willing to sacrifice them so you can thumb your nose at the people you think don't want them to get it. Don't think that the only "cost" is in the money spent on benefits and administration. It has other far reaching costs like an almost total breakdown of the inner city family structure which has resulted in gun deaths, drug activity and criminal behavior in ever younger children. The problem is, this time around, you could cut welfare in its entirety and not effect the deficit or long term debt bomb much at all. Before social benefits programs were added during the New Deal, the government spending consumed 12% of the GDP. You can't just look at welfare without looking at the two other social spending monsters, Social Security and Medicare. Combined they will grow to consume every last dollar at current benefit/revenue projections. It is a Ponzi scheme that won't, can't, pay off as planned. For years republicans have shunted the tax burden on to the lower classes with increases in Fica caps, etc. What are you talking about? The cap on SS premiums goes up according to the formula every single year. The formula is based on actual incomes not some inflation measure. It's out of the hands of any and all political parties. If you go to the SS site you can get the formula. It is a mathematical formula based on mean income. They use it for benefits as well as premium caps. The cap is well above the first four quintiles of income but still the top quintile pays almost 48% of all payroll taxes paid and the last tax reform put the 2.9% that goes to Medicare at un-capped, which means you pay that 2.9% on every dollar of earned income, to the last dollar of income. This effectively raised the marginal rate by 2.9% for the wealthiest tax payers. The lowest quintile now has a negative personal income tax rate because of earned income credits which effectively reduces any payroll taxes paid. The top quintile pays 65.1% of all taxes, federal,excise, estate and payroll. The top half (which starts at around 29K AGI) pays 94%, the bottom half pays 6%. Where do you get that the rich aren't paying their share? They are paying their share and a lot of other people's share as well. Don't take my word for it, do the math yourself: taxpolicycenter.org Some are projecting a 700 billion dollar deficit on the way. Yes, those who don't understand where economic growth and future tax revenue comes from.