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To: Oblomov who wrote (16710)	2/5/2004 9:48:06 AM
From: J. P.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

<<Why do you imply that a programmer is a "professional"?I suppose it confers respectability on a task-oriented job>> Well, the job is more than being task oriented. You have to steer the customer in such a way that the tasks make sense within a business context. Then you have to implement the task in a way that is cost and time effective. Then you have to have the skills and experience as well as native ability to actually make it happen.

To: Oblomov who wrote (16710)	2/5/2004 1:11:01 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

Why do you imply that a programmer is a "professional"? Well, I do admit that there is a problem with the term "programmer". It is too vague. Lets take the people working in engineering at Juniper, most of whom are programmers. I still consider them to be professionals, a class of engineer. Of course there is some IT work that is not professional also, and those folks are also called programmers. There are a whole host of professions in the US that could be done by lower skilled cheaper workers, this has been true since the beginning of time. The Marcom/advertising/PR area comes to mind. People who work in PR are typically college educated and earn good salaries. PR skill level imho is not at the same level as a person who works at oracle or cisco in engineering. And yet, at this moment in time, the PR person probably has a brighter future, because engineering in technology is under attack from globalization. Personally I think a lot of CEOs like Carly Fiorina just don't like to deal with engineering, the difficulty of hiring and maintaining staff etc. Probably because she's just a "suit". So she constantly cries the blues about engineering. Otoh people like Steve Jobs thrives on engineering.