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Politics : The Castle -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (2641)	2/6/2004 10:52:27 AM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7936

Astonishing? It was their land to begin with.......the Zionists finagled their way in. That, of course, depends on how far back you want to go. That land has changed hands many, many, many times. I don't know its whole history, but I know enough to know that if you pick the right point in history, almost every race and religion could claim it as their land, including, at certain points during the Crusades, European Christians. The idea of historical ownership as creating a perpetual right is simply not the way the world works. If it did, we would have to give the whole of the US back to the American Indians, Mexico back to the Incas or whichever tribes were there when the Spanish landed, etc. And, of course, parts of Poland would go back to Germany, along with parts of France, Bulgaria and Romania would go back to the control of Constantinople, England would go back to the Celts (what right did those Normans have to invade it in 1066?), and on and on. That's simply not the way the world works. Get used to it. Plus, as I recall, not long ago you were the one who was saying we shoudn't be backward looking, that the problem would never be solved that way, but that we should only be looking forward. Which was good advice then, and is good advice now. So I suggest you take it.

To: tejek who wrote (2641)	2/6/2004 6:03:00 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7936

Astonishing? It was their land to begin with.......the Zionists finagled their way in. Yes astonishing. It doesn't matter who controlled it first, its astonishing when someone is willing to give up such a large fraction of the land they control when they are not forced to do so. I don't imagine that if they asked for it or if they committed terrorism to try and get it that the US would be willing to give almost half of the US to the "Native Americans" or to give up most of the South West to Mexico. Is it fair that every time their are peace negotiations the Israelis reduce the amount of Palestinian land they allow the Palestinians to have? It might not be fair but it also isn't true. They want Israel gone, period. End of discussion. Nothing less. They will continue to commit terrorist acts until Israel is totally gone. So what? The religious right in this country wants gays banished from this country. 1 - Only a very small fraction of the religious right would want that. 2 - If the religious right in the US does want that how is it a defense for the Palestinian terrorists? Israel has accepted the principle of two nations, that the Palestinians should have their own nation, but that it must respect Israel's right to exist. Has it? You need to read the history of the conflict, starting from the late 19th century thru the 20th century. If the Palestinians don't accept the principle of two nations then their is nothing to negotiate about and the history is irrelevant. If they want a negotiated peace they have to accept Israel's right to exist. Then why has Israel been building settlements in the West Bank and Gaza since the 1980s?... ...Does this sound like a nation that has accepted the notion of two separate states? I don't think so! They accept the idea of two states. But they obviously have a big disagreement about where the border of those two states will be. There are some on the Israeli side that don't accept two states, but those who do accept the two state idea have the ability and apparent willingness to impose such a solution. In the Palestinian case it seems no one has the desire and perhaps no one has the ability to impose a negotiated solution on the extremists. Tim