GEORGE BUSH: DESERTER
PartyTime,
Thanks for the plethora of great links. Here's the definitive word from the U.S. Army on what constitutes desertion:
www-ari.army.mil
II. What is a Deserter?
The criteria by which a soldier is classified as a deserter have varied over time. Currently, any soldier who has taken an unauthorized leave from his/her training or duty station is considered AWOL. On the 31st day of AWOL, this status is officially changed to Dropped From Rolls (DFR), or desertion.
By this standard, George Bush was clearly a deserter. This is black and white.
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Today's press briefing by the President's Press Secretary Scott McClellan was overwhelmed by questions about the President's desertion, and the newly released documents from National Guard archives in Colorado that were released by the Bushies in order to quell the firestorm, but which have had exactly the opposite effect due to the apparent chicanery utilized in presenting smeared, illegible and dubious documents to the press. Oops. Bush cannot do a single thing right any more. The damn fool.
c-span.org
View: LATEST VIDEO >>
White House Press Briefing with Scott McClellan (02/10/2004)
*****
See also:
whitehouse.gov
[[I wouldn't want Scott McClellan's job as a lying scumbucket for all the tea in China. He had to spend the vast bulk of this news conference defending a deserter, and did so....very unconvincingly.]]
<TRANSCRIPT>
Press Briefing by Scott McClellan
The James S. Brady Briefing Room
12:53 P.M. EST
MR. McCLELLAN: (Intro...blah, blah, blah....) With that, I'll be glad to go right into your questions.
Q On the attendance records of the National Guard, it said he had 56 out of a required 50 points. Is that considered a good attendance record, do you know? Or do you know what the maximum number of points you can get --
MR. McCLELLAN: First of all, we were pleased to be able to provide you all with these additional records that just recently came to our attention. These documents clearly show that the President fulfilled his duties. And we had previously released some of the point summaries that you are referencing. There is more complete information relating to those point summaries that document the fact that the President of the United States fulfilled his duties when he was serving in the National Guard back in the early '70s.
Q Scott, a couple of questions I have -- the records that you handed out today, and other records that exist, indicate that the President did not perform any Guard duty during the months of December 1972, February or March of 1973. I'm wondering if you can tell us where he was during that period. And also, how is it that he managed to not make the medical requirements to remain on active flight duty status?
MR. McCLELLAN: John, the records that you're pointing to, these records are the payroll records; they're the point summaries. These records verify that he met the requirements necessary to fulfill his duties. These records --
Q That wasn't my question, Scott.
MR. McCLELLAN: These payroll records --
Q Scott, that wasn't my question, and you know it wasn't my question. Where was he in December of '72, February and March of '73? And why did he not fulfill the medical requirements to remain on active flight duty status?
MR. McCLELLAN: These records -- these records I'm holding here clearly document the President fulfilling his duties in the National Guard. The President was proud of his service. The President --
Q I asked a simple question; how about a simple answer?
MR. McCLELLAN: John, if you'll let me address the question, I'm coming to your answer, and I'd like --
Q Well, if you would address it -- maybe you could.
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry, John. But this is an important issue that some chose to raise in the context of an election year, and the facts are important for people to know. And if you don't want to know the facts, that's fine. But I want to share the facts with you.
Q I do want to know the facts, which is why I keep asking the question. And I'll ask it one more time. Where was he in December of '72, February and March of '73? Why didn't he fulfill the medical requirements to remain on active flight duty status in 1972?
MR. McCLELLAN: The President recalls [[RGD: Guffaw! Heehee, now there's proof for you!]] serving both when he was in Texas and when he was in Alabama. And that is what I can tell you. And we have provided you these documents that show clearly that the President of the United States fulfilled his duties. And that is the reason that he was honorably discharged from the National Guard. The President was proud of his service.
The President spent some of that time in Texas. He was a member of the Texas Air National Guard, and he was given permission, on a temporary basis, to perform equivalent duty while he was in Alabama. And he performed that duty. And the payroll records, that I think are very important for the public to have, clearly reflect that he served.
Q Scott, when Senator Kerry goes around campaigning, there's frequently what they call "a band of brothers," a bunch of soldiers who served with him, who come forward and give testimonials for him. I see, in looking at our files in the campaign of 2000, it said that you were looking for people who served with him to verify his account of service in the National Guard. Has the White House been able to find, like Senator Kerry, "a band of brothers" or others who can testify about the President's service?
MR. McCLELLAN: All the information that we have we shared with you in 2000, that was relevant to this issue. And all the additional information that has come to our attention we have shared with you. The President was asked about this in his interview over the weekend, and the President made it clear, yes, I want all records to be made available that are relevant to this issue; that there are some out there that were making outrageous, baseless accusations. It was a shame that they brought it up four years ago. It was a shame that they brought it up again this year. And I think that the facts are very clear from these documents. These documents -- the payroll records and the point summaries verify that he was paid for serving and that he met his requirements.
Q Actually, I wasn't talking about documents, I was talking about people -- you know, comrades-in-arms --
MR. McCLELLAN: Right. That's why I said everything that came to our attention that was available, we made available at that time, during the 2000 campaign.
Q But you said you were looking for people -- and I take it you didn't find any people?
MR. McCLELLAN: I mean, obviously, we would have made people available. And we -- Mr. Lloyd, who has provided a statement to put some of this into context for everybody, made some public statements during that time period to verify the records that the President had fulfilled his duties. And he put out an additional statement now to put this into context. He's someone with some technical expertise and someone that understands these matters, because he was in the National Guard at the time.
Q Scott, can I follow on this, because I do think this is important. You know, it might strike some as odd that there isn't anyone who can stand up and say, I served with George W. Bush in Alabama, or in Houston in the Guard unit. Particularly because there are people, his superiors who have stepped forward -- in Alabama and in Houston -- who have said in the past several years that they have no recollection of him being there and serving. So isn't that odd that nobody -- you can't produce anyone to corroborate what these records purport to show?
MR. McCLELLAN: David, we're talking about some 30 years ago. You are perfectly welcome to go back and talk to individuals from that time period. But these documents --
Q Hey, we're trying. But I would have thought you guys would have had a real good handle on --
MR. McCLELLAN: - these documents make it very clear that the President of the United States fulfilled his duties --
Q Well, that's subject to interpretation.
MR. McCLELLAN: No. When you serve, you are paid for that service. And these documents outline the days on which he was paid. That means he served. And these documents also show that he met his requirements. And it's just really a shame that people are continuing to bring this issue up. When --
Q I understand --
MR. McCLELLAN: No, no, no, no. People asked for records to be released that would demonstrate he met his requirements. The records have now been fully released. The facts are clear --
Q Do you know that a lot of these payroll records are --
MR. McCLELLAN: -- the facts are clear --
Q -- you can't read them. Have you looked at these? You can't -- how are we supposed to read these?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think you can talk -- one, we put it out on email. It's a lot easier to read, I think, on the email version because that was the --
Q Oh, you did put it on our email?
MR. McCLELLAN: We are going to, if we haven't already. But it was sent to us in email form from the Personnel Center in Denver, Colorado.
Q One other thing on this. To corroborate these records, will the President do two things -- one, will he authorize the relevant defense agency in Colorado to release actual pay stubs for the President? And if those don't exist, will the President file a form, as he can do at the IRS, to at least look for a '72 or '73 tax return that would corroborate what you claim are payroll summaries that he actually got paid for this duty?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think this information is his payroll records. It is my understanding this is the information that is available from his payroll records. And it shows the days on which he was paid. So that's the information that I understand is available. In terms of tax returns, the President, like most Americans, does not have his tax returns from some 30 years ago.
Q But it's possible that he could file a form requesting the IRS to search if they have a return for '72 or '73. Is he willing to do that?
MR. McCLELLAN: Obviously, if there's any additional information that came to our attention that was relevant, we would make that information available.
Q Well, it could be relevant if he would file a form --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think that these documents clearly show that the President of the United States fulfilled his duties. I mean, these were the documents that people questioned and said should be made available. And we went back to double-check. We thought we had all the information that existed previously, but we went back to double-check after the comments that were made over the weekend, to see if there was any additional information available. And when we contacted the Personnel Center in Colorado, it was our understanding that the Personnel Center in St. Louis and Colorado were already working to pull this information together, and that this is the information that they have that is relevant to this topic.
Q So it's your position and it's the President's position that these documents put this issue to rest, period?
MR. McCLELLAN: Oh, I think these documents show that he fulfilled his duties. These documents show that he met his requirements.
Q Scott, two questions, one on the documents, one on the issue. There seems to be a discrepancy now in the President's record that I wondered if you could help me with. These documents that you're holding up show that the President showed up for duty in October and November of '72, January, April and May of '73. But the President's officer effectiveness report, filed by his commanders, Lieutenants Colonel Killean and Harris, both now deceased, for the period 01 May '72 to 30 April, '73, says he has not been observed at this unit, where he was supposed to show up and earning these points on these days. How do you square --
MR. McCLELLAN: You're talking about which unit?
Q The Texas -- at the Ellington Air Force Base.
MR. McCLELLAN: From '72 to '73?
Q Correct. And certainly by -- the President said he returned to Texas in November of '72. So some of these dates of service, which are in these records, ought to have been noted by his commanding officers, who, nevertheless, said, twice, he has not been observed here. Can you explain that?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not sure about these specific documents. I'll be glad to take a look at them. But these documents show the days on which he was paid for his service. And the President -- as I've said, and we previously said during the 2000 campaign -- recalls serving both in Texas and in Alabama during the time period you're bringing up.
Q So he served, but his commanding officers didn't know it?
MR. McCLELLAN: Again, I don't know the specific documents you're referring to. If you want to bring those to me, I'll be glad to take a look at them and get you the answers to your questions.
Q Okay. Then on the general issue, Senator Kerry has said that the National Guard was one way for people to avoid service in Vietnam. The President and the White House have taken umbrage at that, saying that's denigrating the National Guard. In 1994, the President told the Houston Chronicle, in relation to his joining the National Guard, "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment, nor was I willing to go to Canada, so I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes." It sounds like the President, himself, acknowledged that he went into the National Guard because he didn't want to go to Vietnam.
MR. McCLELLAN: The President -- again, Terry, this issue has been addressed fully. Now we're trying to change into different issues here. The President was proud of his service in the National Guard. He fulfilled his duties; he was honorably discharged. I think there are some that we're now seeing are not interested in the facts. What they are interested in is trying to twist the facts for partisan political advantage in an election year. And that's unfortunate.
Q It is a partisan issue. I'm not doubting that, I'm trying to explore it. One of the reasons the Democrats are raising it is because they've got a guy who was in Vietnam.
MR. McCLELLAN: Now it's -- he didn't serve, now it's a different issue -- when the facts clearly show that he did serve, he did fulfill his duties, he did meet his requirements, he was honorably discharged.
Q But he didn't want to go to Vietnam.
MR. McCLELLAN: I think the facts are clear. It's clear that some are not interested in the facts. It's clear that some may be more interested in using this for partisan political advantage.
Q Scott, these are very hard to read, these payroll documents. Are you saying that every date listed on document five is a day that the President was actually -- showed up, he was suited up, he was flying planes -- that's what that means? Because there are, you know, points for active duty, points for inactive duty. What, exactly, are these?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, and that's why we put out the statement from Mr. Lloyd, so you could put that in context. He's someone with the technical expertise that understands those matters and can explain what those points mean. And I think that his statement does that. In terms of the payments, you are paid for the days on which you serve.
Q The days on which you serve, meaning he was actually there on these dates listed, he was actually there --
MR. McCLELLAN: You are paid for the days you serve.
Q Is that what document five is, the dates he served?
MR. McCLELLAN: Again, there was a time period when he was in Alabama, and he recalls serving in Alabama. He was still a member of the Texas Air National Guard at that time. What he was doing was performing equivalent duty, because he was working in Alabama at the time. And he also remembers serving in Texas, as well.
Q Scott, so, for example, in January '73, the President served, according to this, on January 4th, January 5th, January 6th in either Texas or Alabama -- according to document five. Is that correct?
MR. McCLELLAN: You are paid for the days you serve. You have the documents right in front of you. These are documents straight from the Personnel --
Q Is that "yes"?
MR. McCLELLAN: -- straight from the Personnel Center in Colorado.
Q Is that "yes"?
MR. McCLELLAN: I said you are paid for the days in which you serve. And, again, we're talking about 30 years ago, Elisabeth. The President recalls serving in Alabama. He also recalls serving in Texas. That's what he recalls. And that's why --
Q But, again, -- I know you're going to bat this down, but there are people who --
MR. McCLELLAN: You know, there were a lot of people calling for these records to be released. We finally came across these records. They have been released, and these documents reflect the fact that the President met his requirements and fulfilled his duties.
Q And the fact that some of his officers don't recall ever seeing him, are you suggesting that they just don't remember after 30 years?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think I'll let them speak for themselves. I'm not sure that they exactly said it in that way. Some different ones said different things.
Q They have. They have spoken for themselves. They don't remember.
Q What is your answer to them about why they don't remember seeing the President?
MR. McCLELLAN: That the President recalls serving. I just said that.
Q But why are they saying this?
MR. McCLELLAN: And if you look at the records, if you look at these records, these records document that the President fulfilled his duties. These records reflect that he met his requirements, both in point summaries and that he was paid for the days in which he served.
Q Scott, can you just clarify, back to Elisabeth's question here on document five? For example, in February and March of '73, there are no dates that appear, meaning he didn't show up then, or what --
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, look, I mean, we're talking about 30 years ago, again. And these documents show the dates on which he was paid, which means those are the days on which you serve.
Q Does that mean, then, that he --
MR. McCLELLAN: I don't have -- Roger, I'm sorry, I don't have an hour-by-hour itemization of everything he was doing 30 years ago.
Q Are you able to make out any of the paid amounts? How much did he get? I can't read the letters.
MR. McCLELLAN: And again, this is going to be put out in the email version, as well, and you're welcome to contact the Personnel Center. I'm sure that they will be glad to help you, as well.
Q Scott, may I re-ask Dana's question? You keep saying he served -- he fulfilled his duty, he met his requirements. You're not saying, he drilled, he showed up, he attended. Is that intentional?
MR. McCLELLAN: No, he recalls performing his duties, both in Alabama and Texas. I said that in response to Elisabeth's question.
Q Define that.
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, again, I don't have a minute-by-minute breakdown of every single thing he did throughout that time period.
Q What did he do?
Q You keep saying the word, "serve." Define "serve."
MR. McCLELLAN: He met -- he served both in Alabama, and he served both in Texas.
Q Doing what? Did that period -- can you at least tell us the difference between inactive -- because it's not clear in these documents.
MR. McCLELLAN: No, I think that I'll leave it to those who can explain these documents to do the explaining. That's why we put the statement from Mr. Lloyd, who was in the National Guard at the time; he was someone that had the expertise to explain to you what these points mean. And that's why we provided that statement. Obviously, the Personnel Center can tell you more about what everything means on these documents. We just received these late yesterday.
But the one thing that these documents clearly show is that the President of the United States fulfilled his duties when he was in the National Guard. He met his requirements and he was honorably discharged because he fulfilled his duties.
Q Just so I can be sure that I'm interpreting this crystal-clearly -- you're not making any claim here that the President attended, showed up, drilled on these days?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm telling you that he did -- he does recall showing up and performing his duties. And you're paid for the days on which you serve. And that's what these documents reflect.
Q Scott, is it your --
MR. McCLELLAN: We're going to stay on this topic, and then we'll jump to other topics.
Q It's your position that these documents specifically show that he served in Alabama during the period 1972, when he was supposed to be there. Do they specifically show that?
MR. McCLELLAN: No, I think if you look at the documents, what they show are the days on which he was paid, the payroll records. And we previously said that the President recalls serving both in Alabama and in Texas.
Q I'm not interested in what he recalls. I'm interested in whether these documents specifically show that he was in Alabama and served on the days during the latter part of 1972 --
MR. McCLELLAN: And I just answered that question.
Q You have not answered that question. You --
MR. McCLELLAN: No, I said -- no, I said, no, in response to your question, Keith.
Q No, so the answer is, "no"?
MR. McCLELLAN: I said these documents show the days on which he was paid. That's what they show. So they show -- they show that he was paid on these days.
Q Okay, but they do not show that he was in Alabama when he was supposed to be --
MR. McCLELLAN: These are payroll records, and they reflect the fact that he was paid on the days on which he served.
Q Do any of them show that he was paid on days that he served in the latter part of 1972 when he was in Alabama? I don't see any dates for that.
MR. McCLELLAN: It just kind of amazes me that some will now say they want more information, after the payroll records and the point summaries have all been released to show that he met his requirements and to show that he fulfilled his duties.
Q But these documents do not show that. They do not show that he was in Alabama and served at that time. I don't even see any pay dates during that period.
MR. McCLELLAN: They show payments. No, they show pay dates during that fall of 1972 period.
Q They do?
MR. McCLELLAN: There's October on there, there's November on there, and then there's January on there, as well, in '73. There's some pay dates on there.
Q Okay, so then, do they specifically show that he served in Alabama during that time?
MR. McCLELLAN: They show payments in October; they show payments in November.
Q But just because he's paid doesn't mean that he served and worked there, does it?
Q Come on.
MR. McCLELLAN: You know, like I said, people call on us to release the records. We didn't even know they still existed until just the other day. Now we've released the records, which document that the President fulfilled his duties. And now people are trying to move the goalpost even more.
Q You said in Alabama that he had served equivalent duty.
MR. McCLELLAN: That's right.
Q Can you describe what that was, and what -- why did he need to move to Alabama? What was --
MR. McCLELLAN: Like I said, Greg, you're asking me to kind of break down hour-by-hour what he was doing during 1972 and 1973. What these documents show is that he was serving in the National Guard and he was paid for that service. And they show that he was serving in the National Guard and that he met the requirements necessary to fulfill his duties.
Q But his equivalent duty, does that he mean there was a base there he was flying out of? Is that what he recalls?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'd have to go back and double-check, but he remembers serving during that period and performing his duties, both in Alabama and in Texas.
And these are -- look, these are questions we addressed all during the campaign. The issue that came up recently was some were trying to make an outrageous, baseless accusation. If I recall, some were using the comment, "deserter" or "AWOL." I mean, that is outrageous; it is baseless. The President of the United States fulfilled his duties, he was honorably discharged. And now there are some that are not -- are clearly not interested in the facts. They're clearly more interested in twisting the facts to seek a partisan political advantage in the context of an election year. And that's just really unfortunate that some would stoop to such a level.
Q Scott, what is it that took him to Alabama?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?
Q -- that took him to Alabama?
MR. McCLELLAN: It was a campaign, a senatorial campaign.
Q Scott, we all know people who tomorrow may not show up for work and will be paid. And their payrolls will show they were paid.
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, again, when you're serving in the National Guard you're paid for the days on which you serve. I mean, it's specifically related to the service.
Q Could you walk us through the sequence of events in the last few days that led to the production of these records?
MR. McCLELLAN: Sure, sure.
Q And did those efforts begin after or before the interview with --
MR. McCLELLAN: No, it was after. The questions came up in the interview on "Meet the Press," and the President made it very clear, some of what I'm saying here. And he said, yes, I want all records out there. And it was our belief, it was our impression that all the records that existed that were relevant were already released. Back in the 2000 campaign, we went to the Texas Air National Guard to ask for records so that they could be released, and it was our understanding that the payroll records -- it was our impression at the time that the payroll records didn't exist.
Then after this weekend, after the interview, we contacted the National Guard here and asked them where would one go, if these records existed, to find them. We were just going back and double-checking. And we were put in touch with the Personnel Center in Denver, Colorado. So we contacted the Personnel Center in Denver, Colorado. It was our understanding at that time that the Denver and St. Louis offices were already working to pull this information together at the time that we contacted them --
Q On their own?
MR. McCLELLAN: That's correct. They could explain more about why they were doing that.
Q Did you contact them on Monday, Scott?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'll double-check. I believe it would have been probably Monday before we were able to reach them. So, yesterday -- yes, yesterday. I know there were conversations yesterday.
Q Who initiated the conversations?
MR. McCLELLAN: Oh, Dan Bartlett, from here, Communications Director.
Anyway, so he contacted them and found out that there was, indeed, additional payroll records. And the President authorized that those be made available, as he said he was going to do. He said he wanted all the records released that existed, that were relevant. And to our knowledge, this is all the records that exist that are relevant to this topic.
Q The letter from Colonel Lloyd says that he assessed the records. Did -- there's no indication that he had any direct oversight of President Bush. Did he?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?
Q That Lt. Colonel Lloyd, did he have any direct oversight over President Bush at the time he served?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think he could address those questions, in terms of what his role was at the time in the National Guard. But he was certainly someone that had the technical expertise to be able to explain what the point summaries mean, in terms of the numbers, and what they reflect. So that's what he did. And he stated -- he made some comments back during the 2000 campaign; I'm sure you can go back and look at those, as well.
Q Just to be clear, what he's saying today is that his assessment of the records is that the requirements were fulfilled.
MR. McCLELLAN: That the requirements were met. His own words are in his statements so I would refer you straight back to his words.
Q When did Lloyd make this memorandum?
MR. McCLELLAN: This one?
Q Yes.
MR. McCLELLAN: In the last day. I think we received it yesterday from him.
Q -- one date that I was --
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes.
Q Are you ready to take questions on a different subject?
MR. McCLELLAN: We're still on this topic, right?
Q Since there have been so many questions about what the President was doing over 30 years ago, what is it that he did after his honorable discharge from the National Guard? Did he make speeches alongside Jane Fonda, denouncing America's racist war in Vietnam? Did he testify before Congress that American troops committed war crimes in Vietnam? And did he throw somebody else's medals at the White House to protest a war America was still fighting? What was he doing after he was honorably discharged?
MR. McCLELLAN: We've already commented on some of his views relating back to that period the other day. And, obviously, this was a time period also when he was going to get his MBA at Harvard. But the President was certainly proud to serve in the National Guard.
Q And would the White House consider those actions by Senator Kerry, that Jeff mentions fair game in the political season?
MR. McCLELLAN: Terry, I think -- I know that that's a way to try to draw us into a Democratic primary that is ongoing.
Q You're there, my friend. (Laughter.)
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, this is an important matter that some have chosen -- some have chosen to twist the facts. And it's important that the facts are clear. And I think that these documents clearly show that the President met his requirements and fulfilled his duties. But, look, we'll let the Democratic primary continue. They can work out their differences. I think if you have questions to address to people that made certain accusations, you should direct them to those individuals. Because now, in light of these documents, this is new information that clearly shows otherwise to what they were suggesting.
Q Scott, the President said clearly --
MR. McCLELLAN: Let me keep going. I'll come back to you.
Q Wait a second --
MR. McCLELLAN: We have a few in the back. I'll come back to you, I promise. But let me try to get to everybody in the room. I promise I'll
come back to you. Ben I think had one, and then April. And did you have another one, Ron? Kind of slipped one in there.
Q The records show, between April 16, 1972 and October 28th there was no pay period, he wasn't paid. That was when he was in Alabama. Now, you said some of the payroll records were lost, but that you know he didn't serve. And was this the President remembering he didn't serve?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think it was for the fall period, when he -- and again, I'd have to go back and look at the exact dates of when he was in Alabama. But it was during the fall that he made a request to perform equivalent duty in Alabama again. That was still a period when he would be a member of the Texas Air National Guard. But I'd have to go back and double-check those exact dates that he was in Alabama.
Q -- wouldn't have been paid for equivalent duty?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?
Q You wouldn't be paid for equivalent duty.
MR. McCLELLAN: You're paid for serving. And equivalent duty is performing your duties for the Texas Air National Guard.
Q But the summary sheets state that he did not perform service in the third quarter of --
MR. McCLELLAN: These are not our summary sheets, these are the summary sheets from the Personnel Center in Colorado.
Q -- payroll records were lost, but also, we know he didn't perform service in that third quarter.
MR. McCLELLAN: You are paid for the days on which you serve.
<Transcript Continues, and the Stonewalling continues, at the White House Website.......> |
