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Politics : Libertarian Discussion Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Raymond Duray who wrote (5582)2/11/2004 5:11:52 PM
From: LPS5  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13056
 
So, in your mind, being in favor of social equity is anathema to libertarianism?

Yes, quite. But don't take my word for it:

"Freedom Is Not 'Public Policy' " by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
mises.org

"Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature" by Murray N. Rothbard
lewrockwell.com

"The 'Ideal' of Equality" by Dmitry Chernikov
lewrockwell.com

You do have a, let's call it... interesting view of the world.

Thank you! We're proud to stand out against the statists and socialists that dominate the political scene today.

And, with respect to "social stratification," "exploitation," and "class warfare" - predictably emotional, collectivist propaganda terms - you need only consult the platforms page of the libertarian party website to know our position. A few examples:

"...The welfare state, supposedly designed to aid the poor, is in reality a growing and parasitic burden on all productive people, and injures, rather than benefits, the poor themselves."
lp.org

"We support repeal of all laws that impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws, so-called "protective" labor legislation for women and children, governmental restrictions on the establishment of private day-care centers, and the National Labor Relations Act...We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and "aid to the poor" programs. All these government programs are invasive of privacy, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals."
lp.org

"We favor replacing the current fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, government sponsored Social Security system with a private voluntary system. Pending that replacement, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary. Victims of the Social Security tax should have a claim against government property."
lp.org

"...In order to abolish monopolies, we advocate a strict separation of business and State. "Anti-trust" laws do not prevent monopoly, but foster it by limiting competition. We therefore call for the repeal of all "anti-trust" laws, including the Robinson-Patman Act which restricts price discounts, the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, and the Clayton Anti-Trust Act. We further call for the abolition of the Federal Trade Commission and the anti-trust division of the Department of Justice. We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives, and other types of companies based on voluntary association. Laws of incorporation should not include grants of monopoly privilege. In particular, we oppose special limits on the liability of corporations for damages caused in noncontractual transactions. We also oppose state or federal limits on the size of private companies and on the right of companies to merge. We further oppose efforts, in the name of social responsibility, or any other reason, to expand federal chartering of corporations into a pretext for government control of business."
lp.org

"Since we believe that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor, we oppose all government activity that consists of the forcible collection of money or goods from individuals in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we:

1. recognize the right of any individual to challenge the payment of taxes on moral, religious, legal, or constitutional grounds;

2. oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes;

3. support the repeal of the Sixteenth Amendment, and oppose any increase in existing tax rates and the imposition of any new taxes;

4. support the eventual repeal of all taxation; and

5. support a declaration of unconditional amnesty for all those individuals who have been convicted of, or who now stand accused of, tax resistance.

As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately. We oppose as involuntary servitude any legal requirements forcing employers or business owners to serve as tax collectors for federal, state, or local tax agencies. We oppose any and all increases in the rate of taxation or categories of taxpayers, including the elimination of deductions, exemptions, or credits in the spurious name of "fairness," "simplicity," or alleged "neutrality to the free market." No tax can ever be fair, simple, or neutral to the free market. In the current fiscal crisis of states and municipalities, default is preferable to raising taxes or perpetual refinancing of growing public debt."

lp.org

That seems a strange sort of liberty.

Your surprise confirms that you're utterly befuddled about the nature of libertarianism. However, altruist that I am, I will be happy to answer any additional questions that you have.

LPS5



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (5582)2/11/2004 9:59:38 PM
From: Lazarus_Long  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13056
 
So, in your mind, being in favor of social equity is anathema to libertarianism?
I'd say that's not a principle but it is an outcome.

If you are free to work at any job, get for it what you can, charge what the market will pay, and work as hard and long as you wish, and we both choose the same professions, charge the same rates, are equally smart, but I am willing to put in twice the hours you will, your version of "Libertarianism" says the state should take 1/3 of my earnings and give them to you just to get an equal outcome?

That's weird, man.

Have you thought about the social and economic ramifications of that? Why should I produce more if the excess will be confiscated? Why produce at all, since I will get as much whether I do or not?

Did you notice that not even the Worker's Paradises went that far? They were stupid, but not THAT stupid.

"Equal" means equal in the eyes of the law, not equal incomes. That's communism, essentially the diametric opposite of Libertarianism.