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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (539554)2/12/2004 6:16:36 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
I read remarks by Vaclav Havel, for whom I have enormous respect, on the matter. It was a moral issue for him.......



To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (539554)2/12/2004 6:18:42 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769670
 
Hear is my nomination for a great moralist:
Some thoughts from Vaclav Havel:

And now, if you will allow me, I will at last try to gain some distance from myself and attempt to formulate three of my old certainties, or rather my old observations, that my time in the world of high politics has only confirmed:

(1) If humanity is to survive and avoid new catastrophes, then the global political order has to be accompanied by a sincere and mutual respect among the various spheres of civilization, culture, nations, or continents, and by honest efforts on their part to seek and find the values or basic moral imperatives they have in common, and to build them into the foundations of their coexistence in this globally connected world.

(2) Evil must be confronted in its womb and, if there is no other way to do it, then it has to be dealt with by the use of force. If the immensely sophisticated and expensive modern weaponry must be used, let it be used in a way that does not harm civilian populations. If this is not possible, then the billions spent on those weapons will be wasted.

(3) If we examine all the problems facing the world today, be they economic, social, ecological, or general problems of civilization, we will always —whether we want to or not—come up against the problem of whether a course of action is proper or not, or whether, from the long-term planetary point of view, it is responsible. The moral order and its sources, human rights and the sources of people's right to human rights, human responsibility and its origins, human conscience and the penetrating view of that from which nothing can be hidden with a curtain of noble words—these are, in my deepest convictions and in all my experience, the most important political themes of our time.

Dear friends, when I look around me and see so many famous people who appear to have descended from somewhere up there in the starry heavens, I cannot help feeling that at the end of my long fall from a fairy-tale world onto the hard earth, I suddenly find myself once more inside a fairy tale. There is perhaps only one difference: now I can appreciate this feeling more than I was able to in similar circumstances thirteen years ago.

nybooks.com



To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (539554)2/12/2004 6:19:47 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
Havel endorses U.S. line on Iraq
Bruce I. Konviser, The Washington Times
PRAGUE--Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein is a menace to his neighbors and pre-emptive military action may be warranted against him, Czech President Vaclav Havel said in an interview ahead of a visit to Washington beginning today.

"Saddam Hussein's regime poses a major threat to many nations and to his own people," Mr. Havel said. "The right thing for Bush is not to go in alone. There should be an international intervention."

The visit, which includes a meeting with Mr. Bush tomorrow and talks with leaders of the Senate and the House of Representatives, will be Mr. Havel's final one to Washington before his scheduled retirement in January.

But in an interview late last week, the one-time dissident playwright expressed more interest in current issues than in nostalgic memories of 13 years as Czech president.

The Bush administration doctrine of pre-emptive military action could be justified on a case-by-case basis, said the often-ailing Mr. Havel, who turns 66 next month.

He said World War II might have been avoided had Western powers--Britain and France, in particular--not pursued a policy of appeasement with Adolf Hitler.

One of Mr. Havel's last official acts will be to preside over a NATO summit in the Czech capital in November that is expected to sharply change the alliance. Meeting for the first time in a former Warsaw Pact territory, delegates will invite as many as seven more countries to join the alliance.

Mr. Havel said NATO enlargement is critical to stabilizing Eastern Europe and would lay to rest an ugly chapter of European history.

"It will finally show there are no more spheres of influence," he said.

His life-long struggle for human rights--he spent five years as a political prisoner under the communist regime--has won him praise and friendship from world figures such as former President Bill Clinton and Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel.

But despite having joined NATO in 1999--along with Poland and Hungary--and the prospect of joining the European Union, possibly as early as 2004, the post-communist years have been difficult ones for Mr. Havel and his country.

He has waged a long battle against powerful political forces that scoff at the notion of civil society being a necessary component for a vibrant democracy even as they advocate what Mr. Havel has called mafia capitalism.

Now, the man who led the Velvet Revolution in 1989, which brought about the bloodless overthrow of the communist regime, says he wants a break.

"I would like to withdraw from public view for a certain amount of time, to read and write," Mr. Havel said. He declined to say whether he wants to do a memoir, a play or something else.

He intends to remain an active voice on the political scene. But he said power is overrated and he has no plans to hold office again.

"I can't find much empathy for those who yearn for power," he said. "I never aspired to it but it came to me, and has been a very interesting experience."

Jan Urban, a fellow dissident during the communist days and now a commentator for Czech Radio, hasn't always seen eye to eye with the president, but he said Mr. Havel has come full circle.

"He finishes exactly as he started," Mr. Urban said, "as a moral authority hated by a large part of the political class but admired by a large part of the population."

meaus.com



To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (539554)2/12/2004 6:27:27 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
Another good piece from Mario Vargas Llosa

LE MOINDRE MAL par Mario Vargas Llosa

The Lesser Evil, by Mario Vargas Llosa

Mon opposition à l'intervention militaire des Etats-Unis et de la Grande-Bretagne en Irak, exposée sans nulle ambiguïté le 16 février, a été fort nuancée, pour ne pas dire corrigée, après mon voyage -Le Monde a publié, du 3 au 9 août, le récit du séjour de M. Vargas Llosa en Irak-.

My opposition to the military intervention of the United States and Great Britain in Iraq, expressed without ambiguity on the 16th of February, has become very nuanced, not to say corrected, after my trip--- Le Monde published, from the 3rd to the 9th of August, an account of the trip of Vargas Llosa in Iraq.

C'était, précisément, l'une des deux raisons de mon séjour là-bas : vérifier sur le terrain - du point de vue irakien - si les arguments avancés par le ministre des affaires étrangères français pour condamner l'intervention militaire étaient toujours aussi convaincants que lorsque je raisonnais dans l'abstrait sur ce sujet, loin du théâtre des événements, en Europe.

It was precisely one of two reasons for my sojourn down there: to verify on the groung the Iraqi point of view, if that the arguments advanced by the French minister of foreign affairs condemning the military intervention were aminly convincing while I was reasoning in the abstract on the subject, far from the theater of events, in Europe.

Je persiste à croire que ce fut une très grave erreur de la part des gouvernements de la coalition de brandir, pour justifier l'action militaire, l'existence d'armes de destruction massive aux mains de Saddam Hussein et le lien de ce dernier avec Al-Qaida et les auteurs du massacre du 11 septembre, alors qu'en l'absence de preuves, en définitive, cela apparaît, dans l'état actuel des choses, plutôt comme des prétextes que comme des raisons concluantes.

I continue to believe that it was a very grave mistake on the part of the governments of the coalition to brandish, as a justification for military action, the existence of WMDs in the hands of Saddam Hussein, and ties between Al Qaida and the authors of the massacre of September 11th, given the absence of definitive proof, so that they appear, in the actual state of things, rather like pretexts rather than conclusive reasons.

Car la destruction de la dictature de Saddam Hussein, une des plus cruelles, corrompues et démentes de l'histoire moderne, était une raison en soi suffisante pour justifier l'intervention. Comme aurait été justifiée une action préventive des pays démocratiques contre Hitler et son régime avant que le nazisme précipite le monde dans l'apocalypse de la seconde guerre mondiale.

For the destruction of the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, one of the cruellest, most corrupt, and demented in modern history, was in itself reason enough to justify the intervention. As would have been justified a preventive action by the democratic countries against Hitler and his regime before the nazism precipitated the world into the apocalypse of the Second World War.

"Saddam Hussein devait tomber, mais par l'action interne des Irakiens eux-mêmes", a dit le président français Chirac, en manifestant par cette phrase une méconnaissance profonde du régime présidé par Saddam Hussein. Comme celui de Hitler ou de Staline - ses modèles -, le dictateur irakien avait dépossédé tout son peuple de sa souveraineté et, par l'exercice d'une terreur vertigineuse, colonisé les esprits des Irakiens jusqu'à annihiler, à plus ou moins long terme, toute possibilité réaliste de soulèvement efficace contre le régime ouvrant la voie à un processus de démocratisation. (...)

"Saddam Hussein should fall, but by the internal actions of the Iraqis themselves", said French President Chirac, showing by such a phrase a profound misunderstanding of the regime of Saddam Hussein. As had Hitler and Stalin, his models, the Iraqi dictator had disposseded the Iraqi people of sovereignty, and, by the use of vertiginous terror, colonized their spirits until annihilating, in the short or long term, any realistic prospect of an effective uprising against the regime opening the way to a process of democratization.

Criticable, sans doute, par son caractère unilatéral, et dépourvue qu'elle est du soutien des Nations unies, l'intervention militaire de la coalition a ouvert, néanmoins, pour la première fois dans l'histoire de l'Irak, la possibilité pour ce pays de briser le cercle vicieux de l'autoritarisme et du totalitarisme dans lequel il a sombré depuis que la Grande-Bretagne lui a accordé son indépendance.

Criticizable, without doubt, for its unilateral charactger, and lacking the support of the United Nations, nevertheless the military intervention of the coalition opened, for the first time in the history of Iraq, the possibility of breaking the vicious circle of authoritarianism and totalitariansim in which it had slumbered since Great Britian accorded it it's independence.

Malgré toutes les souffrances qu'a entraînées pour les Irakiens l'intervention militaire, celles-ci restent encore minimes si on les compare à celles qu'ils ont dû endurer en raison de la politique de génocide, d'abjection et de répression systématique du régime du Baas. (...)

Despite all the suffering brought about in the wake of the military intervention, it still is small if one compares it to what they endured due to the policy of genocide, impoverishment, and systematic repression of the Ba'athist regime.

Sans doute est-il dangereux d'établir comme norme le droit des nations démocratiques à agir militairement contre les dictatures, pour faciliter les processus de démocratisation, car dans certains cas pareil principe pourrait n'être qu'un écran de fumée pour des aventures à caractère colonial.

Without doubt, it is dangerous to establish as a norm the right of democratic nations to act militarily against dictatorships to facilitate the process of democratization, for in certain cases the same principle could be used as a smoke screen for colonial adventures.

Cette conduite ne peut être légitime que dans des cas exceptionnels, quand, par sa nature extrême, ses excès criminels, ses génocides, une dictature a colmaté les voies de liberté qui auraient permis au sein du peuple une action pacifique de résistance, ou quand elle devient, par ses initiatives belliqueuses contre ses voisins et ses atteintes aux droits de l'homme, un danger sérieux pour la paix mondiale.

This conduct can only be legitimate in exceptional cases, when, by its extreme nature, its excessive criminality, its genocide, a dictatorship seals off the ways of liberty which could have permitted the people peaceful resistance, or when it becomes, by its belligerent initiatives against its neighbors and its attack on the rights of man, a serious danger for world peace.

Les témoignages iraquiens unanimes que j'ai pu recueillir dans mon court séjour en Irak m'ont convaincu que le régime de Saddam Hussein présentait très exactement ce caractère d'exception.

The unanimous testimony of Iraqis that I was able to receive in my short stay in Iraq has convinced me that the regime of Saddam Hussein presented quite exactly this exceptional character.

Il est certain qu'une intervention de cette nature aurait dû être légitimée par la légalité internationale représentée par les Nations unies. Mais l'opposition de la France, qui a menacé d'opposer son veto au Conseil de sécurité, a fermé toutes les portes à cette possibilité.

It is certain that an intervention of this nature could have been legitimated by the United Nations. But the opposition of France, which threatened to use its veto in the Security Council, closed all the doors to that possibility.

La guerre d'Irak dépasse largement les frontières de l'ancienne Mésopotamie. Elle a servi à mettre en lumière, en les aggravant, les différences entre les Etats-Unis et ses anciens alliés, comme la France et l'Allemagne, et à attiser la haine contre les Etats-Unis, en légitimant un nouvel antiaméricanisme sous couleur de pacifisme et d'anticolonialisme où se côtoient nostalgiques du fascisme et du communisme et nationalistes, sociaux-démocrates, socialistes et mouvements antiglobalisation.

The war in Iraq went beyoond the frontiers of ancient Mesopotamia. It served to bring to light, and aggravate, the differences between the United States and its veteran allies, like France and Germany, and to stir up hatred against the United States, legitimating a new anti- Americanism under the color of pacifism and anticolonialism, where stand side by side fascist and communist nostalgics with nationalists, social democrats, socialists, and antiglobaliazation movements.

Par un étrange retour de manivelle, la guerre d'Irak a permis, en Europe et en Amérique, de faire apparaître Saddam Hussein comme le David du tiers-monde résistant à l'aventure coloniale et pétrolière du Goliath-Bush, et de diaboliser les Etats-Unis comme la source première de la crise internationale que vit le monde depuis le 11 septembre 2001.

By a strange twist of fate, the war in Iraq permits, in Europe and America, Saddam Hussein to appear as a David of the Third World resisting the colonialist and oil man Goliath- Bush, and to demonize the United States as the primary source of the first international crisis to arise in the world since September 11, 2001.

Il est déplorable de voir la frivolité, assortie d'un nationalisme croissant, affichée par le gouvernement français dans cette affaire, contribuer à la dénaturalisation de la réalité historique, dont l'un des plus graves effets a été la division au sein de l'Union européenne, qui menace de retarder, voire de paralyser pour un temps indéfini le processus d'intégration de l'Europe.

It is deplorable to see the frivolity, matching a growing nationalism, posted by the French government in this affair, contributing to the denaturalization of historical reality, of which one of the most serious effects is the division in the European Union, which threatens to slow, indeed, to paralyze indefinitely the process of European integration.

lemonde.fr@2-3230,36-344495,0.html