Amy,
Thank you for your reasoned response.
Not sure if you are fully aware of how your blanket statements read, "Its normal" and "India is a sick, sick country."
That's a huge, all-encompassing, sweeping statement.
Yes, it is......like I've said, "Its normal" was a bad choice. That India is a "sick country" is a broad generalization but I am not so sure I want to step back from it too far. I believe whole countries can be sick.........Nazi Germany is an extreme example. India has a lot wrong with it.....maybe its not sick sick but I think its culture is in considerable trouble. And that's from a lot of perspectives, and not just their treatment of women or minorities.
RE: "What makes you think your sampling is anything but anecdotal?!"
Because of the nature of the contacts, two whose jobs would put them into a position of knowing better than Dateline. You claimed Dateline said it was the "norm."
First, have you ever watched Dateline....its not Entertainment Tonight or MTV. Its a very valid news magazine. The woman who presented the story is a well respected journalist. I am not sure your contacts are that much better informed. Often times, the most educated person can't see the forest for the trees, or is in a state of denial.
RE: "what kind of country is India that requires the parents of the bride to come up with huge dowries"
What kind of country is the USA that encourages some women to be anorexic? A dowry certainly sounds infinitely more humane than anorexia.
There is a hell of a difference between "requiring" and "encouraging". To my mind, they are not analogous at all.
But even unintended, you don't seem to be aware of how your blanket statement reads. And when Eric pointed it out, your reply was surprising and you continued to say it was "very much the norm." That's a broad brush you sweep with.
Yes, it did have a blank statement read to it and I apologize for that.
RE: "This article says that 7k women DIED from dowry murders and suicides in 1996"
Tejek, every day four women die in our country as a result of domestic violence.
That's 5k when normalized to India's population.
Amy, this is where I have a real problem with your POV. You seem to want to mitigate the problem. Initially, by suggesting its impact in India is fairly small. That may be true but that's not what two well respected news sources are saying.
And now you are trying to minimize the issue by turning it into a mathematical problem. Its not a math problem.....its a human and cultural problem.
If your statistic of 4 women per day is correct, then 1460 women die each year in the US from domestic violence, not 5k.......there is no normalization to account for differences in population size. It is what it is period.
In addition, domestic violence is under reported in India way more than in the US. Women there do not have the support of their families nor the gov't when it comes to domestic violence. American society would be in shock if half the women reported in a survey that domestic violence is a normal way of life in the US. I think, sometimes, we get inured to comments like that but that's way over the top. That's huge! These are not sensationalistic news media statistics but those coming straight from the mouths of Indian women through a gov't ministry to us.
This figure doesn't even include suicides. We have problems here too, which is another reason why blanket statements don't work too well.
Amy, why are you hiding behind the blanket statement issue? Sure the US has problems with domestic violence but its no where near the degree of problem in India.
Also, in the USA, approximately "17 percent of pregnant women report having been battered, and the results include miscarriages, stillbirths and a two to four times greater likelihood of bearing a low birth weight baby."
now.org;
Again, 17% vs 50%!
RE: "And isn't Bangalore the hi tech capital from where so many Indians are emigrating to the Silicon Valley?"
It appears you are presumptuously assuming my reach only goes as far as Bangalore, which is incorrect.
Actually, I was referring to the higher educational levels in Bangalore. You would not expect as much domestic violence when the population is more educated and aware. And yet, the NY times article was reported from that locale.
RE: "Frankly, Amy, I am surprised at your effort to make it seem like the issue has been over dramatized by American media."
The issue I pointed out is your blanket statement swipes at all Indians. It gives the appearances of being uninformed. To claim it is the norm for Indians is inaccurate sensationalism. To claim it happens too much is accurate and factual. The pain these people go through can never be over dramatized.
Good....then we agree.
RE: "Amy, please don't tell me what I know and don't know. You hardly know me nor my life experiences. In fact, how dare you be so presumptuous?!"
I specifically said, "You appear to be passing judgement from a viewpoint"
I have had considerable experience with Indian peoples. Whether its more or less than your experiences, I don't have a clue. However, most personal experiences are anecdotal and I think its dangerous to translate anecdotal experiences into a state of reality for a country.
Having said that, my comments had more to do with what I have read, statistics I have seen, reports on the treatment of people in India, and the overall state of its economy and culture than with my own personal interactions.
BTW a woman who cancelled her wedding on her wedding night right before the ceremony was to begin because her fianceé was badgering her father for even more dowry gifts and cash is now a national heroine in India. Her former fianceé is threatening to kill her. Do you think this sounds like a healthy culture?
Finally, from all reports, this issue of the dowry gifts and the related disfigurement of women is a fairly widespread problem throughout India.
RE: " On another note, does anyone know the economic policies of Edwards and Kerry? Or, is that too boring of a topic? Maybe people would prefer to discuss political dirt, rather than economic solutions. And maybe the news media is forced to echo their readers' interests. Why the sarcasm?"
Sorry for the sarcasm. It would be nice if you helped encouage the thread to hunt down some informative posts on the candidate's domestic position? I'm not finding much. In the past, your thread has been most useful in providing candidates' domestic positions.
For good or bad, 'ownership' of this thread is wrongly assigned to me. However, all I did was maintain it when it was abandoned for the moderated AMD thread.
As for the domestic positions of the candidates, most likely that would not be something I would have posted. Others usually get into to that kind of stuff. I hope you will post on that subject and I am sure others will as well.
None of the candidates have given a clear articulation of their economic domestic plans. Knowing this information is an important part of the voting process.
I think they are starting to but it seems to be getting lost in the hoopla over the resurgence of the Dem. party. In addition, I don't think the media is paying as close attention because there have been so many Dem candidates. With the field narrowed to two, I think there will be more in depth coverage.
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