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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: denizen48 who wrote (543519)	2/21/2004 2:51:50 AM
From: Kevin Rose	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

Uh, did they specifically say video tapes? Maybe they meant audio? Or maybe they said tape, but meant film...

To: denizen48 who wrote (543519)	2/21/2004 1:49:06 PM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Tapes? Could be audio tapes too. But really if making someone listen to tapes was the worst torture they could come up with, then it sounds pretty cushy to me. In America we have freedom of speech. Even soldiers know that not everyone agrees with the government. In fact many folks serving don't agree with everything the government does, nor should they. Hitler was able to get everyone in lock step through torture and intimidation. That's pretty much what the Bushies want now. They think that if everyone was in lock step, then taking over the world would be a lot easier for them. I listened to Powell's speech the other day. They are still trying to justify the murder of 20,000 people to rid the country of a madman that we installed and supported in the first place. While I agree that vigilance, and readyness were part of the equation to free Iraq from the result of our past transgressions, I still believe that the need for the invasion was completely overblown. Intelligence was being stovepiped into the Oval office. Much of it was crafted by the same folks who were members and authors of the PNAC. Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress were supplying a good stream of BS into the stovepipe. Cheney and Perle set up their own intelligence channels and stovepiped that to Bush. Bush never even picked up a newspaper, and chose to get his news and intelligence from these selective sources. He made his decisions based on this narrow view. In short, Bush over reacted to a situation that was no where near as desperate as it was painted. The motive for making war was fully driven by profit. Several of the policy makers, their friends and family are positioned to reap huge profits from the war. This is not new. War makes some men incredibly rich. Andrew Carnegie became rich as a contractor to the North during the civil war. Johnson became rich during the Vietnam war. Now Bush, Cheney, and a host of others will become rich in Iraq. You want the truth? Follow the money. Orca

To: denizen48 who wrote (543519)	2/21/2004 2:06:01 PM
From: Hope Praytochange	Respond to of 769667

GARY SOLIS: Jim, you're right. My Vietnam experience affects me much more today than it did at the time. That's why Kerry's Vietnam record instinctively strikes a chord with me, and why I'm put off by Bush's seeming avoidance of Vietnam duty. I think Tom Carhart said several years ago that there will always be a wall between those who went and those who didn't. He's so right. And Kerry went, Bush didn't. That simplistic but stark dichotomy isn't necessarily the deciding issue in my voting, but it's a significant factor. And it's the candidates who have made it an issue. Bush aboard a carrier in a borrowed flight suit, Kerry in a home movie, striding through the bush. Who's for real and who's a poseur? Yet I'm also repulsed by Kerry's postwar conduct, particularly his denigration of his fellow Vietnam veterans.

To: denizen48 who wrote (543519)	2/21/2004 2:09:37 PM
From: Hope Praytochange	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

JANIS NARK: I'm glad I've come late to the fray as I have enjoyed reading all your views. I agree that what these two gentlemen did during Vietnam was a result of their individual placement in society, age, probably income bracket or connections, and some serendipity. Very little of what they did or did not do in that conflict will have any bearing on the job they will face in leading our country in the years to come. In considering what the American people think is important in today's world, I would venture to say that they are more concerned about their jobs, their family, education, medical care and the environment than they are about what these guys did 30 years ago in the military. While there is great concern, especially after 9/11, about terrorism and homeland security, I believe the vast number of Americans were not touched personally andconsider it much farther down on their list of "What's Important to Me Today." Having said that, let me add, my heart swelled with pride when I saw our CINC [commander in chief] in that flight suit on the carrier and again when he made the surprise visit to the troops in Iraq for Thanksgiving. As a nurse I know firsthand the effect that these actions had on the morale of our troops and these were both awesome displays of our president's commitment to our men and women in uniform.