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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (38264)	2/22/2004 11:27:18 PM
From: lurqer	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 89467

your excuse Just weird brain chemistry, but you already inferred that. They tend to lean on the scientific dangers, and really worry about contamination. I'm with them. We're still early in this game. Kinda like nuclear, before anybody thought of fallout. that will be his high water mark in the campaign. Hope you're right. Just think we're dealing with people for whom a loss is unacceptable. JMO lurqer

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (38264)	2/23/2004 1:22:29 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Respond to of 89467

Re: Shrub will close the gap around convention time, 'cuz that is always what happens. but that will be his high water mark in the campaign. Not necessarily. There's lots of chatter about major mobilizations of street demonstrations and counter-conventions being organized for NYC protests. It depends on the police and the mood of the media as to how things will get reported. Huge anti-Bush demonstrations in the City will definitely be an embarrassment to Bush and threat to the GOP fat cats. You can be sure that A.N.S.W.E.R. and United for Peace and Justice will be pulling out all the stops for this demonstration of democracy. If things really gel for this, heck, I might even show up. I haven't done an east coast protest since October, 1969 when half a million protested the escalation of the Viet Nam war into Cambodia. If anything, I believe there is more will to protest a despicable jerk in the White House this year than when Nixon was the target of our hatred. "When the government fears the people, that is LIBERTY. When people fear the government, that is TYRANNY." --Thomas Jefferson

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (38264)	2/23/2004 10:24:38 AM
From: lurqer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

Exhibiting how widespread the debate is - Lively debate on GM foods An international conference on genetically-modified food held in Kuala Lumpur has witnessed a heated debate over a science that some call monstrous and others promote as an answer to world hunger. Environmental group Friends of the Earth has released a 51-page report, charging that 10 years after the first GM food appeared on supermarket shelves, biotech corporations have failed to prove its benefits for farmers or consumers. The assessment was released to coincide with the opening of the first Conference of Parties to the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety, a UN accord which came into force last September. The US has not signed the protocol, which has been ratified by 86 countries and the European Union, but is lobbying hard for the acceptance of GM crops worldwide. Tough EU laws EU nations have infuriated the US by passing tough laws on identifying and labelling food that has GM ingredients - one of the major topics for debate at the conference. Britain has already made it clear that London plans to take a firm stand. Environment Minister Elliot Morley told AFP before the conference: "The US has to understand there is enormous sensitivity about genetically-modified food. The US has also to understand we would not give blanket approval (to GM food products). There is no chance of that whatsoever." "The bottomline must be consumer choice," said Morley. "We do have a number of GM food ingredients which are approved in the UK and they must be labeled and that will be extended to any GM products." The Friends of the Earth report says GM crops have "created novel and alarming environmental problems such as genetic contamination". "Contrary to the promises made by the biotech corporations the reality of the last 10 years shows that the safety of GM crops cannot be ensured, that they are neither cheaper nor higher quality and that they are not the magical solution to solve world hunger," said Friends of the Earth spokesman Juan Lopez. Genetic modification can involve the introduction of genes from one plant to another or switching genes between plants and animals to change the way they develop, usually to protect them from disease or enhance their commercial value. english.aljazeera.net lurqer

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (38264)	2/24/2004 2:25:30 AM
From: lurqer	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 89467

They tend to lean on the scientific dangers, and really worry about contamination As I said, I agree. Modified Seeds Found Amid Unmodified Crops By ANDREW POLLACK Published: February 24, 2004 Seeds that are supposed to be free of genetic engineering routinely contain biotechnology traits anyway, a public interest group said yesterday. The group, the Union of Concerned Scientists, said it had detected tiny quantities of genetically modified seeds in most of the bags of unmodified corn, soybean and canola seeds it tested. If seeds do contain the traits, the group said, it would be virtually impossible for farmers to grow crops that are completely free of genetic modification. That could mean disruption of crop exports to countries that do not allow genetically engineered foods. It also makes it harder for organic farmers to supply customers who will not accept even tiny degrees of genetic engineering. "The door to seed contamination is wide open," said Margaret Mellon, director of the food and environment program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, who added that her group's study was the first to systematically look at the issue. In a conference call with reporters, she said the genetically engineered seeds might have come from a mixing of seeds by farmers or seed companies or from pollination of seed crops by genetically engineered crops. Representatives of the seed and biotechnology industries said the findings were not surprising and did not pose any health risk because the genetically modified seeds detected are approved and widely grown already. "Low levels of biotech traits present in conventional seed is not new and is something that has been around for eight years or so now," the president of the American Seed Trade Association, Richard Crowder, said. Mr. Crowder said it was not possible to ensure that a bag of seeds was completely pure. Regulations allow a bag of corn seed to contain, in some cases, up to 5 percent of varieties different from the one on the label. So it is not surprising to find some outside presence of genetically altered seeds in bags meant to contain nonengineered varieties. The Union of Concerned Scientists bought six varieties each of corn, soybean and canola seeds and sent samples to two commercial laboratories for testing. One laboratory detected genetically engineered seeds in three of six varieties of the corn and soy samples and some in all six canola varieties. The other laboratory found genetically engineered traits in five of the six varieties of each crop. The genetically modified seeds were found in low levels, ranging from 0.05 percent to 1 percent. The traits detected were the ones used in widely grown genetically engineered crops - herbicide tolerance and insect resistance. Dr. Mellon said a bigger health risk would occur if genes now being tested to produce pharmaceuticals from crops were to get into seeds for food crops. Her group could not test for such genes because in general their identity is not known. "If the door to the seed supply is open to contamination,'' she added, "it is likely that drug genes will be able to pass through it, right to our breakfast tables." But seed and biotechnology industry representatives said that was unlikely. The crops used to produce pharmaceuticals will be grown on much smaller acreage than herbicide-resistant soybeans, and the regulations for isolating them from other crops will be much stricter, they said. Frederick Kirschenmann, director of the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture at Iowa State University, said in the conference call that organic farmers were having an increasingly difficult time obtaining seeds free of genetic engineering. "If the current rate of seed contamination continues," he said, "then farmers that supply niche markets that do not allow any genetically modified materials will simply lose those markets.'' nytimes.com lurqer