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Pastimes : G&K Investing for Curmudgeons -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (21955)	2/22/2004 10:46:02 PM
From: Mike Buckley	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22706

uw, I do believe your military service and mine were a valuable contribution to America... Yours maybe. Mine surely not. The military bands are a waste of millions of dollars, probably tens of millions including retirement benefits, every year. My military band service might have been a contribution only in the sense that I lawfully fulfilled my military obligation. And it might have been a contribution because I played a small role that eventually caused the Military District of Washington to lose a federal lawsuit; the result was that the Army was ordered (imagine the Army being ordered!) to stop overtly coercing military personnel to make personal financial contributions to fundraising campaigns of the military's choice. Other than that, my service in the band couldn't possibly have been valuable to anyone unless you figure that it prevented me from going to Viet Nam and thus prevented me and my military ineptitude from getting fellow soldiers killed. Indeed, I sometimes wonder if I might have been more patriotic as an effective draft dodger. The only reason I enlisted was because my government coerced me into doing so. The other less preferable possibilities were being drafted, going to another country, or lying to obtain status as a "conscientious objector." Before I enlisted, legal counsel advised me that my application for conscientious objector status would be rejected due to a very specific rule regarding my philosophy. After I enlisted, that rule changed. In other words, one day my government said I was unpatriotic for holding a particular view and the next day it said I was indeed a true patriot for holding that exact same belief. Nothing changed other than the government, but tell that to the poor guy or gal who died in Viet Nam and wouldn't have been there had the appropriate rule been in effect in the first place. I did not bring up the awards issue...ID did. You sound like a little kid playing in the sandbox, not like the trained killer that you are. The best you can come up with is "He started it." Neener neener neener. That's exactly what the Dems and Repubs are saying about each other's negative political campaigns these days. The people are friendly and always helpful...not to mention patriotic. You should come out of retirement so you can work for the government and decide for the rest of the world who is and who isn't patriotic. but you will find yourself always welcomed, always assisted and always invited, because you have served America honorably. Thanks, but the minute you determine that somebody has served America honorably, you're also determining that someone else has been dishonorable. I don't think you and your friends (or anyone) are qualified to be the great arbiters of patriotism. If that's the reason I'm welcome to your community, I'll pass. Does it have a beltway so I can avoid it entirely? This is my last post on this subject. I apologize to everyone for its uncurmudgeonly tone. --Mike Buckley

To: unclewest who wrote (21955)	3/2/2004 11:14:24 AM
From: Dr. Id	Respond to of 22706

Here's more "total BS" for uw: Remember: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, it is morally treasonable to the American Public." -- President Theodore Roosevelt "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." --Thomas Paine The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothes being worn out and does not cry it out, is not a patriot, but a traitor. --Mark Twain "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right and a desire to know; but besides this, they have a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to know that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean of the characters and conduct of their rulers." --John Adams "How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." --Adolph Hitler "When the people clamor to be shielded from reality, when they praise their government for keeping things from them, when they choose to conduct their lives within the limits of whatever fantasy the government supplies, then they are no longer consenting to be governed, they are begging to be ruled." --Michael Ventura

To: unclewest who wrote (21955)	3/2/2004 11:17:02 AM
From: Dr. Id	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22706

Things you must believe to remain a Republican today: a. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery. b. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq. c. Government should limit or totally eliminate legal liability of corporations, and fill our prisons with individuals who struggle against addiction. d. "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India. e. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation. f. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton. g. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay. h. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for Governor of California as a Republican. I. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex. j. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money. k. HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart. l. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism. m. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools. n. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion. o. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy. p. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet. q. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's record of intimate dealings with Enron, Halliburton and the Carlyle Group is none of our business. r. You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt. s. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant. t. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.