SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: unclewest who wrote (30903)2/22/2004 8:50:26 PM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793928
 
Navy officers who apparently served in Kerry's Vietnam unit

His immediate Commanders would be in their 70s today. Still young enough to be around. Some reporter is going to check them out. I suspect they had a run in with him and agreed to send him home. Let's see what surfaces.

This kind of stuff never shows up until a Presidential campaign.



To: unclewest who wrote (30903)2/22/2004 8:50:50 PM
From: michael97123  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793928
 
UW,
I was thinking about you yesterday. We have different views on what went wrong on vietnam. I believe you believe we didnt go all out to win. Arent we doing the same thing in iraq in the not so sunni triangle? Isnt there a more effective way to take out the insurgents? Or are we worrying too much about the sunni reaction if we use what is perceived to be too much force? David Kaye cost the president his lead and thats good because it happened 8 mos before the election. But the drip drip drip of casualties will make it impossible for bush to regain a clear lead. How do we win that f*****g thing so we can win this f*****g thing? mike



To: unclewest who wrote (30903)2/22/2004 9:09:10 PM
From: Hope Praytochange  Respond to of 793928
 
To:PROLIFE who wrote (258)
From: William Brotherson Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 4:12 PM
View Replies (6) | Respond to of 297

Good Morning Everyone,
Today you get treated to the ramblings of a madman. A man who still believes that right can win, who still prays on his knees, who still disciplines his kids, who takes the extra change back into the store if given too much. Corney, maybe, but it allows me to shave with a smile each day!

A very dear friend wrote and asked me to look at this thread and then post my thoughts. I have spent the last few days reading everything that I could come across concerning Kerry. I really don't know where to begin as everything is really colored depending on which side of the fence you are looking from.

Being a decorated Vietnam Veteran myself, (door gunner with 229th Assault Helicopters) and having spent more time in country than Kerry, having seen things myself personally that add up to far more than Kerry was physically capable of seeing, I know for a fact that not everything out of his mouth is the truth.

War is a very ugly business and it effects everyone differently for any one of a thousand reasons. Some come to love it like a wonderful companion that keeps life interesting, while others will view it with an open eye. They will try to do the best that they can do under the very worst of circumstances just trying to get through each day with as much humanity as they can save. They will live with the nightmares and the ghosts for the rest of their lives and try not to let the war stop them from contributing what they have left to offer society. Then there are still others who feel that they have seen such horrors from war that a normal life is almost impossible. To them, their memories are so overblown by their own fears, that they have no control over their own imaginations and their fears control them to such an extent that they would sacrifice everything, even freedom itself, to stop the carnage they imagine will ensue if they do nothing. This causes them to turn against their own brothers in arms who fought with them side by side.

I feel that Kerry falls into this last category in the beginning and that is why he started the anti war position he took. I feel that this approach was his undoing as it taught him the first lesson of his political career, "You can lie about anything as long as it is popular with the public" and he has not stopped from that time forward. But lets be realistic here, every politician lies who is trying to get into office. Some do it unwittingly by having the best of intentions but lack the clout to bring their promises to fruition. Some knowingly lie with great zeal and use it to their best advantage, which Kerry is doing today.

One thing that pops out and really screams at me is where are the rest of the people who were actually stationed with Kerry? Why are they not out defending him with every breath or telling everyone just how much crap he is spewing? Where are the written records that must exist that shows he is telling the truth when he states these terrible atrocities happened and that he informed those in command of each incident, who he now says took no notice and did nothing about them? Where are his commanding officers who have the knowledge to prove or rebuff his claims.? What pressure are they under to keep quiet about these things? We have all heard the horror stories he brings out with the ears, fingers, heads, etc. I do not doubt that these things did happen but they were most assuredly the exception to the rule and not the norm for an American soldier. When these things did come to light, those responsible were punished to the fullest extent of the USMCJ and some are still in prison to this day. One writer who ran the same type boats that Kerry did, pointed out, that Kerry's medals were won by disobeying every rule in the book including those of common sense, but we must remember the first lesson he learned as stated above, and he is using it today like a master.

Another thing that just eats at my soul is the question of his statements about the terror war of today. Not just the Iraq war, (as I was also against it until it became clear there was no other choice) but his statements of being a friendly nation to those that want our destruction at all costs. This shows me that falling into that last category I mentioned above, he would sell the United States down the drain and leave us defenseless to keep from going to war even if it meant that we all were turned into slaves without any rights at all on the world stage. You can believe that he understands the concept of, those that would help our enemies being among the few who would be over the rest of us if beaten and taken over, and that is where he plans on being, no matter what.

Do I hate Mr. Kerry? I think not, I feel that he cannot be trusted. I feel that he would lie to any extent to get what he wanted. I feel that he knows how to fool people as attested to by some of the Vietnam Veterans that support him with open arms, those Veterans who will not listen to the facts no matter how they are presented, those Veterans who will not take the time to check his voting record and see that he has been an enemy to the Veteran cause with each vote cast because it was not popular to be on the Veterans side, until now! Now, he is making promises, he is telling stories of how virtuous his military career was, how he is a Veterans Veteran, how he was the only one who had the guts to stand up to the establishment of that day. It makes me wonder if he was also among those few who made it impossible for me to wear my uniform off base for fear of being attacked by my fellow Americans, But hey, that was popular at that time so that was the side to be on, I cannot fault him for that. What I can do is make sure that this very dangerous misguided man will not get my vote. I can write letters to try and make sure that the truth see's the light of day and that the rights I fought for will not be trampled under the boots of a fool. That each American will have the right to make up their own minds without interference, without being brow beaten by what is popular rather than by what is right. I will be watching Mr. Kerry very closely from now on and I will be praying to my God that we still have time before the fall so that good men will open their eyes and no longer keep their mouths shut. I will also pray for each and every one of us who hold honor, truth, justice to be more dear than our very lives.

I have written far too much without saying very much really, just the ramblings of a Vietnam Veteran who didn't get out early, who didn't quit because things became unpopular and who still holds the American dream close to my heart.

Have a great day all

wb
Message 19835694



To: unclewest who wrote (30903)2/22/2004 9:10:02 PM
From: Hope Praytochange  Respond to of 793928
 
To:PROLIFE who wrote (258)
From: William Brotherson Sunday, Feb 22, 2004 4:12 PM
View Replies (6) | Respond to of 297

Good Morning Everyone,
Today you get treated to the ramblings of a madman. A man who still believes that right can win, who still prays on his knees, who still disciplines his kids, who takes the extra change back into the store if given too much. Corney, maybe, but it allows me to shave with a smile each day!

A very dear friend wrote and asked me to look at this thread and then post my thoughts. I have spent the last few days reading everything that I could come across concerning Kerry. I really don't know where to begin as everything is really colored depending on which side of the fence you are looking from.

Being a decorated Vietnam Veteran myself, (door gunner with 229th Assault Helicopters) and having spent more time in country than Kerry, having seen things myself personally that add up to far more than Kerry was physically capable of seeing, I know for a fact that not everything out of his mouth is the truth.


War is a very ugly business and it effects everyone differently for any one of a thousand reasons. Some come to love it like a wonderful companion that keeps life interesting, while others will view it with an open eye. They will try to do the best that they can do under the very worst of circumstances just trying to get through each day with as much humanity as they can save. They will live with the nightmares and the ghosts for the rest of their lives and try not to let the war stop them from contributing what they have left to offer society. Then there are still others who feel that they have seen such horrors from war that a normal life is almost impossible. To them, their memories are so overblown by their own fears, that they have no control over their own imaginations and their fears control them to such an extent that they would sacrifice everything, even freedom itself, to stop the carnage they imagine will ensue if they do nothing. This causes them to turn against their own brothers in arms who fought with them side by side.

I feel that Kerry falls into this last category in the beginning and that is why he started the anti war position he took. I feel that this approach was his undoing as it taught him the first lesson of his political career, "You can lie about anything as long as it is popular with the public" and he has not stopped from that time forward. But lets be realistic here, every politician lies who is trying to get into office. Some do it unwittingly by having the best of intentions but lack the clout to bring their promises to fruition. Some knowingly lie with great zeal and use it to their best advantage, which Kerry is doing today.

One thing that pops out and really screams at me is where are the rest of the people who were actually stationed with Kerry? Why are they not out defending him with every breath or telling everyone just how much crap he is spewing? Where are the written records that must exist that shows he is telling the truth when he states these terrible atrocities happened and that he informed those in command of each incident, who he now says took no notice and did nothing about them? Where are his commanding officers who have the knowledge to prove or rebuff his claims.? What pressure are they under to keep quiet about these things? We have all heard the horror stories he brings out with the ears, fingers, heads, etc. I do not doubt that these things did happen but they were most assuredly the exception to the rule and not the norm for an American soldier. When these things did come to light, those responsible were punished to the fullest extent of the USMCJ and some are still in prison to this day. One writer who ran the same type boats that Kerry did, pointed out, that Kerry's medals were won by disobeying every rule in the book including those of common sense, but we must remember the first lesson he learned as stated above, and he is using it today like a master.

Another thing that just eats at my soul is the question of his statements about the terror war of today. Not just the Iraq war, (as I was also against it until it became clear there was no other choice) but his statements of being a friendly nation to those that want our destruction at all costs. This shows me that falling into that last category I mentioned above, he would sell the United States down the drain and leave us defenseless to keep from going to war even if it meant that we all were turned into slaves without any rights at all on the world stage. You can believe that he understands the concept of, those that would help our enemies being among the few who would be over the rest of us if beaten and taken over, and that is where he plans on being, no matter what.

Do I hate Mr. Kerry? I think not, I feel that he cannot be trusted. I feel that he would lie to any extent to get what he wanted. I feel that he knows how to fool people as attested to by some of the Vietnam Veterans that support him with open arms, those Veterans who will not listen to the facts no matter how they are presented, those Veterans who will not take the time to check his voting record and see that he has been an enemy to the Veteran cause with each vote cast because it was not popular to be on the Veterans side, until now! Now, he is making promises, he is telling stories of how virtuous his military career was, how he is a Veterans Veteran, how he was the only one who had the guts to stand up to the establishment of that day. It makes me wonder if he was also among those few who made it impossible for me to wear my uniform off base for fear of being attacked by my fellow Americans, But hey, that was popular at that time so that was the side to be on, I cannot fault him for that. What I can do is make sure that this very dangerous misguided man will not get my vote. I can write letters to try and make sure that the truth see's the light of day and that the rights I fought for will not be trampled under the boots of a fool. That each American will have the right to make up their own minds without interference, without being brow beaten by what is popular rather than by what is right. I will be watching Mr. Kerry very closely from now on and I will be praying to my God that we still have time before the fall so that good men will open their eyes and no longer keep their mouths shut. I will also pray for each and every one of us who hold honor, truth, justice to be more dear than our very lives.

I have written far too much without saying very much really, just the ramblings of a Vietnam Veteran who didn't get out early, who didn't quit because things became unpopular and who still holds the American dream close to my heart.

Have a great day all

wb
Message 19835694



To: unclewest who wrote (30903)2/22/2004 9:35:54 PM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793928
 
Yesterday my husband related a tale from Bill Mauldin, whom, as you know, created the Bill and Willie cartoons for Stars and Stripes. He got a tiny scratch from a grenade in WWII, and when the doctor bandaged him, handed him a Purple Heart. He objected that the scratch was nothing, he'd gotten worse from barbed wire on the farm back home, and the doctor told him, "it all adds up, maybe this will help get you out of here."

I know that those who served there probably feel differently about this, but personally I can't blame a man for wanting to go home, so collecting Purple Hearts for minor injuries makes sense, if that's what happened, but bragging about it later seems strange. (I am a devout coward, myself, not at all personally brave. I'd gladly serve behind lines but am too much of a wimp to be a hero.)



To: unclewest who wrote (30903)2/23/2004 6:53:29 AM
From: Lane3  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793928
 
One stated none of his 3 Purple Hearts required even a 2x2...which is the smallest bandage in a corpsman's combat bag.

Here we have two guys, one of whom got an honorable discharge according to the practices of the time with the signatures of the appropriate officials and another who got purple hearts according to the practices of the times with the signatures of the appropriate officials.

Here we have two sets of advocates, each of which would make hay out of suspected illegitimacy in the actions of those guys and those officials. More precisely each set of advocates would make hay out of the other guy and the other officials while they condemn the other advocates for making hay over their guy and their officials.

What a sorry situation!