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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (36561)	2/23/2004 7:37:08 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Alan you made too much of my use of the word "possible" Remember that Jesus used the same phrase (in our English translations) Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. I am merely saying the same - that it is possible for kings to be saved – I did not deny that it was God that would save them. That was a presumption on your part - and rather silly considering how long you have known me to expound the sovereignty of God. Notice also something that was observed by Paul: 1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: Do you think that Paul for an instance was suggesting that "wise, mighty, or noble" men were harder for God to save? CERTAINLY NOT It was a fact - that God was choosing the foolish to confound the wise: Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? How embarassing for a carpenter to understand - how humbling for mere fishermen and such to understand and yet the educated be confounded. All of this just verifies that God chooses men – it is not men choosing God. Paul was highly educated - he was the exception rather than the rule. Paul had to tell his reader that God had not "cast away his people" when it was needful to write chapter upon chapter discounting the play of the Jews to that time period. Alan - could it be that your introductory remark: RE"That statement is completely unbiblical and you know it." Is more of an attempt to gain momentum toward what the real issue is between us? Your Universalism is unbiblical. When Paul declares that they should pray for kings that is the subject of the sentence and the main thought. Alan the attitude within Israel was one of militant resurgence among the Zealots. They wanted to rise up against kings and those in authority and slay them with the sword. Paul saw the way of Christ - the one who healed the soldiers ear and told men that they who lived by the sword would die by the sword. I think it is unfortunate that your zeal to see God save all men blinds you from understanding the simplicity of what Paul was saying. We are to pray - even for people like Hitler - and evil kings as one never knows whom God will chose to save... but Alan GOD DOES NOT SAVE EVERYONE In this you greatly err. Paul in Romans 9 goes to great extent to prove this. You said “Workers of inequity” are only that way temporarily. Sadly you are clearly adding to the word of God. This is being said in "that day" not to a men who are merely about to undergo a trial as was Peter. Your assertion comes not from the text but from your presuppositions of universalism. That is the case with all Universalist - they add to the intent of a few exclusive verses and ignore the larger part of what is consistently taught throughout scripture. In a theological sense - you strain out a gnat and swallow the camel of Universalism. Hell was not invented by churches to control the masses It was taught by Jesus. I have not much time at this instance - but I will "try" to address what you are doing to the scriptures - you are taking your system and forcing the scripture to suit and verify it. I know Alan - that you can counter accuse me of the same... that is a typical response :-) Unfortunately, I am yet at work and need to go home as it is far past the time to leave the building. I trust however that you look forward to opportunity to prove me wrong and the more I speak the tighter I may draw the noose. I will give you this Alan - what you believe is quite lovely and in my flesh I wish you were correct. It is no wonder so many today are falling for these doctrines but then they also had itchy ears in Paul's day so perhaps nothing has really changed in this respect - after all God loves everyone Or at least that is what the bumper sticker on Noah's Ark said. Brian