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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: w0z who wrote (546014)	2/27/2004 10:52:11 AM
From: PROLIFE	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

Hi Bill, God hates the sin, not the sinner. Snyder says he is a Christian, so that is the point I was wanting him to admit. but remember that Jesus changed the rules (grace and forgiveness instead of wrath and vengeance). Jesus changed no rules, He is the completion of the law. The perfect sacrifice. If a person is a child abuser and unrepentant(defined as turning back from) then there is no more sacrifice for sin, would you agree?

To: w0z who wrote (546014)	2/27/2004 1:54:49 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

<God hates the sin, not the sinner.> 1. If the "sin" is something inborn, inherent, a biological pre-disposition that cannot be changed by any act of will, then condemning the act is identical to condemning the person who does the act. It's like saying, "I don't hate niggers, but I Believe God said it's an abomination to have black skin, since they all descend from the cursed Tribe of Ham." People do not have free will to choose their skin color, or their sexual orientation. You can make the distinction theoretically, between act and person; but in practice, in how it works out in people's lives, the distinction is meaningless as applied to gays. I think of conservative Christians as Old Testament Christians, because they consistently follow the methods of Moses (or, worse, Joshua), rather than the methods of Jesus. Lots of rules, authoritarian oversight, and harsh punishment for anyone who breaks the rules. No love, no forgiveness, no mercy. They may say they are only critical of the acts, and will extend the love of God to the persons, but what I see is a lot of righteous glee that gays are dying horribly of AIDS. 2. <(grace and forgiveness instead of wrath and vengeance)> Yes. There are innumerable rules, in the Old Testament. The Law of Moses, which told everyone how to dress, what to eat, how (exactly how) to pray, how men should cut their beards, what kinds of clothes to wear, etc., etc. And some rather nasty, cruel punishments for breaking the rules. Almost all of those rules and punishments have been set aside, and most Christians don't even know about the authoritarian code of conduct laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Conservative Christians don't try to enforce 98% of the specific rules laid out in those Books. So why are they so sure about the other 2%? 3. <"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22. "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death...." Leviticus 20:13> These passages are translated very differently, in various versions of the Bible. All translation is interpretation. The cultural biases of the translator inevitably creep into the translation. This passage could be translated as: "Ritual anal sex done by a man, to a man or woman, in a Pagan temple, is forbidden." Same original Hebrew, different translator with different cultural biases: "Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden." Quite a difference, isn't it? The male God Yahweh and the female Goddess Astarte had an ongoing hearts-and-minds war throughout the entire Old Testament. As part of Her temple rituals, Astarte worshippers had sex with temple prostitutes. These were both male and female, so the sex was both heterosexual and homosexual. There is no Hebrew word in the above passages (or anywhere in the Bible) which can be directly and clearly translated as "homosexual". So, the "abomination" is performing sexual rituals in a competing Deity's temple. Not homosexuality. 4. The word "Sodomite", with a capital S, refers to a person who lives in the city of Sodom, and nothing else. The sin of the people of Sodom was inhospitality, not homosexuality. The word "sodomite", lower case s, where it appears in the Bible, really means "temple prostitute". It does not mean "homosexual"; that is a modern mis-translation. religioustolerance.org